Question:
She’s spinning about 600 at idle on a good day, down to about 500 if she’s being temperamental…;) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I believe its time for you to do some hard and fast establishment of > reference points. > Take the left valve cover off, rock the engine so that the #1 valves are > at overlap (you might want to do the ‘check piston for TDC’ number at > the same time), then mark the balancer rim, the balancer center and take > a reading on where the distributor rotor is pointing (if necessary, > fabricate some type of bracket from the throttle linkage hold-down bolts > measure and record the settings where you get an acceptably-running > engine. > This will enable you to determine if the discrepancy is occurring > between balancer center and rim, between balancer and #1 piston, between > #1 piston and distributor. > Also, at what idle speed are you checking advance? > if much above 700 rpm, the mechanical advance may be coming into play > and upsetting your readings. > ‘81. The ECM, smog junk, etc. have been removed. Non-computer HEI. > That’s it, there just isn’t a lot of stuff to break, dunno why I can’t > get this taken care of… Mark > > Excuse me, I forgot the year(old thread). Some of these things had an > > asc box on them. Nothing else but that. > >> She’s got a new balancer now, and the puzzle still continues. Motor > >> mounts (dist possibly whacking the firewall), distributor, timing > > set, > >> damper have all been inspected, and excepting the mounts, replaced, > >> to no avail. I’m running out of ideas so fast I’ve been replacing > >> parts that don’t look faulty. There simply isn’t much left to check > >> out. A wrench at the local dealership suggested that the crank snout > >> may even > > be > >> moving around–he claims to have seen it happen. > >> > Have seen a few harmonic balancers fail in the rubber coupling. > >> > The outer ring with the timing marks will actually spin a bit with > >> > respect to the crank and inner portion of the balancer. Usually > >> > due to years of oil leak softening of the rubber layer. Compare > >> > the relative position of the timing mark with the key slot on > >> > yours with those positions on a known good one first before > >> > looking inside at something harder to fix and more expensive. It > >> > would be my first inspection. > >> >> >Hello all: I posted awhile back, citing a mild 350 that refused > >> >> >to hold time. On suggestion, I took a closer look at the > >> >> >distributor–and found the shaft well on its way to seizing, a > >> >> >chewed up centrifugal advance and a bad vacuum can. After > >> >> >bolting down a remanufactured piece with a new clamp, problem > >> >> >solved–for about a week. Once again it is engaging in the > >> >> >weekly task of walking itself out to about 18 degrees before > >> >> >TDC. > >> >> > As said in the last postings, the stock-spec chain is tight, > >> >> > the > >> >> >cogs undamaged. What I can see of the cam gear without bumping > >> >> >the engine over appears undamaged as well. When resetting the > >> >> >timing, (which is getting to be a weekend routine…) the > >> >> >distributor clamp is still tight–I can’t move the distributor > >> >> >without loosening the bolt, so I don’t think that is the cause. > >> >> >It has been suggested that the harmonic balancer could be at > >> >> >least partially to blame. (It is 20 years old now). Does this > >> >> >sound logical? > >> >> >Mark > >> — > >> Death is so final for only the living. > >> –Ozzy Osbourne > — > Death is so final for only the living. > –Ozzy Osbourne
– Death is so final for only the living. –Ozzy Osbourne
Response:
I believe its time for you to do some hard and fast establishment of reference points. Take the left valve cover off, rock the engine so that the #1 valves are at overlap (you might want to do the ‘check piston for TDC’ number at the same time), then mark the balancer rim, the balancer center and take a reading on where the distributor rotor is pointing (if necessary, fabricate some type of bracket from the throttle linkage hold-down bolts that will allow you to where you get an acceptably-running engine. This will enable you to determine if the discrepancy is occurring between balancer center and rim, between balancer and #1 piston, between #1 piston and distributor. Also, at what idle speed are you checking advance? if much above 700 rpm, the mechanical advance may be coming into play and upsetting your readings.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> ‘81. The ECM, smog junk, etc. have been removed. Non-computer HEI. > That’s it, there just isn’t a lot of stuff to break, dunno why I can’t > get this taken care of… > Mark > Excuse me, I forgot the year(old thread). Some of these things had an > asc box on them. Nothing else but that. >> She’s got a new balancer now, and the puzzle still continues. Motor >> mounts (dist possibly whacking the firewall), distributor, timing > set, >> damper have all been inspected, and excepting the mounts, replaced, to >> no avail. I’m running out of ideas so fast I’ve been replacing parts >> that don’t look faulty. There simply isn’t much left to check out. A >> wrench at the local dealership suggested that the crank snout may even > be >> moving around–he claims to have seen it happen. >> > Have seen a few harmonic balancers fail in the rubber coupling. The >> > outer ring with the timing marks will actually spin a bit with >> > respect to the crank and inner portion of the balancer. Usually due >> > to years of oil leak softening of the rubber layer. Compare the >> > relative position of the timing mark with the key slot on yours with >> > those positions on a known good one first before looking inside at >> > something harder to fix and more expensive. It would be my first >> > inspection. >> >> >Hello all: I posted awhile back, citing a mild 350 that refused to >> >> >hold time. On suggestion, I took a closer look at the >> >> >distributor–and found the shaft well on its way to seizing, a >> >> >chewed up centrifugal advance and a bad vacuum can. After bolting >> >> >down a remanufactured piece with a new clamp, problem solved–for >> >> >about a week. Once again it is engaging in the weekly task of >> >> >walking itself out to about 18 degrees before TDC. As said in the >> >> >last postings, the stock-spec chain is tight, the cogs undamaged. >> >> >What I can see of the cam gear without bumping the engine over >> >> >appears undamaged as well. When resetting the timing, (which is >> >> >getting to be a weekend routine…) the distributor clamp is still >> >> >tight–I can’t move the distributor without loosening the bolt, so >> >> >I don’t think that is the cause. It has been suggested that the >> >> >harmonic balancer could be at least partially to blame. (It is 20 >> >> >years old now). Does this sound logical? >> >> >Mark >> — >> Death is so final for only the living. >> –Ozzy Osbourne > — > Death is so final for only the living. > –Ozzy Osbourne
Response:
Excuse me, I forgot the year(old thread). Some of these things had an asc box on them. Nothing else but that.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> She’s got a new balancer now, and the puzzle still continues. > Motor mounts (dist possibly whacking the firewall), distributor, timing set, > damper have all been inspected, and excepting the mounts, replaced, to no > avail. > I’m running out of ideas so fast I’ve been replacing parts that don’t > look faulty. There simply isn’t much left to check out. > A wrench at the local dealership suggested that the crank snout may even be > moving around–he claims to have seen it happen. > Have seen a few harmonic balancers fail in the rubber coupling. The > outer ring with the timing marks will actually spin a bit with respect > to the crank and inner portion of the balancer. Usually due to years of > oil leak softening of the rubber layer. Compare the relative position of > the timing mark with the key slot on yours with those positions on a > known good one first before looking inside at something harder to fix > and more expensive. It would be my first inspection. >> >Hello all: I posted awhile back, citing a mild 350 that refused to >> >hold time. On suggestion, I took a closer look at the >> >distributor–and found the shaft well on its way to seizing, a chewed >> >up centrifugal advance and a bad vacuum can. After bolting down a >> >remanufactured piece with a new clamp, problem solved–for about a >> >week. Once again it is engaging in the weekly task of walking itself >> >out to about 18 degrees before TDC. As said in the last postings, the >> >stock-spec chain is tight, the cogs undamaged. What I can see of the >> >cam gear without bumping the engine over appears undamaged as well. >> >When resetting the timing, (which is getting to be a weekend >> >routine…) the distributor clamp is still tight–I can’t move the >> >distributor without loosening the bolt, so I don’t think that is the >> >cause. It has been suggested that the harmonic balancer could be at >> >least partially to blame. (It is 20 years old now). Does this sound >> >logical? >> >Mark > — > Death is so final for only the living. > –Ozzy Osbourne
Response:
‘81. The ECM, smog junk, etc. have been removed. Non-computer HEI. That’s it, there just isn’t a lot of stuff to break, dunno why I can’t get this taken care of… Mark – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Excuse me, I forgot the year(old thread). Some of these things had an > asc box on them. Nothing else but that. > She’s got a new balancer now, and the puzzle still continues. Motor > mounts (dist possibly whacking the firewall), distributor, timing > set, > damper have all been inspected, and excepting the mounts, replaced, to > no avail. I’m running out of ideas so fast I’ve been replacing parts > that don’t look faulty. There simply isn’t much left to check out. A > wrench at the local dealership suggested that the crank snout may even > be > moving around–he claims to have seen it happen. > > Have seen a few harmonic balancers fail in the rubber coupling. The > > outer ring with the timing marks will actually spin a bit with > > respect to the crank and inner portion of the balancer. Usually due > > to years of oil leak softening of the rubber layer. Compare the > > relative position of the timing mark with the key slot on yours with > > those positions on a known good one first before looking inside at > > something harder to fix and more expensive. It would be my first > > inspection. > >> >Hello all: I posted awhile back, citing a mild 350 that refused to > >> >hold time. On suggestion, I took a closer look at the > >> >distributor–and found the shaft well on its way to seizing, a > >> >chewed up centrifugal advance and a bad vacuum can. After bolting > >> >down a remanufactured piece with a new clamp, problem solved–for > >> >about a week. Once again it is engaging in the weekly task of > >> >walking itself out to about 18 degrees before TDC. As said in the > >> >last postings, the stock-spec chain is tight, the cogs undamaged. > >> >What I can see of the cam gear without bumping the engine over > >> >appears undamaged as well. When resetting the timing, (which is > >> >getting to be a weekend routine…) the distributor clamp is still > >> >tight–I can’t move the distributor without loosening the bolt, so > >> >I don’t think that is the cause. It has been suggested that the > >> >harmonic balancer could be at least partially to blame. (It is 20 > >> >years old now). Does this sound logical? > >> >Mark > — > Death is so final for only the living. > –Ozzy Osbourne
– Death is so final for only the living. –Ozzy Osbourne
Response:
Mark, Hope you’ve got the problem solved.. Sounds like your TDC mark might be off.. (slipping balancer) like Bob May indicated… Easy enought to check TDC, you can even make a tool real easy by busting the insulator out of an old plug, running a tap through it and screwing in a piece ot threaded rod (round off the end..!!..) or a long bolt… Screw this into #1 cylinder (easier if all plugs are out) Then TAKE KEY OUT of the IGNITION..!! Then BY HAND, slowly crank engine around ’til piston hits the stop.. mark balancer, then spin around the other way ’til it hits again. mark balancer. Obviously, halfway between the two marks is TDC. A little work, a lot of peace of mind. No more wondering…. Scotty – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I’ve been marking the distributor. It ain’t movin’. >I swapped out the timing set for a gear drive. Overkill, yes, but a >buddy that owed me had one, so I wasn’t arguing. Thus far, the mark >hasn’t wandered but a degree, so I think we’ve nabbed that problem. >However, it’s sitting way off in 18 degree >land again–I can’t bring it down to my target of 8 degrees; the motor >gets rough and starts to die at an indicated 12 degrees. So I figure it >must actually be in time, but just isn’t indicating the proper number. >So, here goes my off the wall explanation for this: >Sitting at a red light the other night, I kicked the heater on hi. The >mill died. Turn the blower off, restart, it runs fine. Kick the blower >back on, she starts coughing again. I’ve suspected the charging system >to be iffy for some time now (sluggish cranking after around town >driving, lights dim with the turn signal, etc.) , but it wasn’t exactly at the top of my >priority list. So if my alt output is low, it would follow that the coil >is sending really lame shots to the plugs. Therefore, is it possible >that my inductive timing light, due to low power in the plug wire, is >"catching" the pulse and firing the strobe at the wrong time? A bad >spark would also tend to explain the rough accel and power loss I was >blaming on being out of time. >Thanks all for continuing to help out my confused self 
>Mark > I haven’t seen whether the dist. is turning or not. If it is turning, > did you put the sealing washer under the dist. when you put it in? If > not, you will have to clamp down a lot to get the dist. to stop turning. > Also if the dist. is indeed turning and is retarding, I suggest that > you put some lube on the bushings top (especially as this is the one > that usually doesn’t get much lube) and bottom. > — > Bob May Remember that computers do exactly what you tell them to do, not > what you think that you told them! Bob May
Response:
Pull the dist. and remove the gear and put it back together. My suspicion then is that the pin is sheared and you won’t be able to drive it through. The gear on the cam should be part of the cam so that’s not moving either. BTW, the outside of the dampener may be moving and if you go chasing it, you will quickly be off. I’d rather keep the timing set by ear rather than by a mark on the dampener. — Bob May Remember that computers do exactly what you tell them to do, not what you think that you told them! Bob May
Response:
Some thoughts: 1) OK, someone mentioned the busted crank & I chuckled…. but what’s the chances that the CAM is busted… slim to none I suppose… but if it were fractured in such a way that engine could still function… sure might mess up your timing.. but … Nah, not a chance.. 2) OK, how ’bout this… Are you checking timing at idle only?? Try timing the thing at 4K or so… or, if you’ve got "early" advance springs, time it whenever all timing is in.. and do comparisons. Maybe advance mechanism is hanging up.. not always coming back to zero advance. 3) To eliminate a host of possibilites, borrow another distributor… Sorry, out of ideas now. Scotty
Response:
Hello all: I posted awhile back, citing a mild 350 that refused to hold time. On suggestion, I took a closer look at the distributor–and found the shaft well on its way to seizing, a chewed up centrifugal advance and a bad vacuum can. After bolting down a remanufactured piece with a new clamp, problem solved–for about a week. Once again it is engaging in the weekly task of walking itself out to about 18 degrees before TDC. As said in the last postings, the stock-spec chain is tight, the cogs undamaged. What I can see of the cam gear without bumping the engine over appears undamaged as well. When resetting the timing, (which is getting to be a weekend routine…) the distributor clamp is still tight–I can’t move the distributor without loosening the bolt, so I don’t think that is the cause. It has been suggested that the harmonic balancer could be at least partially to blame. (It is 20 years old now). Does this sound logical? What’s left? If the cam bearings were oversize and the bumpstick was jumping around and not engaging the dist drive gear, the distributor gear and the chain should have been chewed up… If I wasn’t so scared of the cost and hassle of burning a slug or valve, I’d be half tempted to just ignore it–lately it seems to be running better with the timing way out on the front bumper. C’mon Bob May, CBHVAC, et al, I know you gurus can help me straighten this out… TIA Mark — Death is so final for only the living. –Ozzy Osbourne
Response:
A close look at the balancer will reveal that it is a 2 piece. Take a paint stick and mark both pieces with a line. If the line diverges after a timing shift…..
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello all: > I posted awhile back, citing a mild 350 that refused to hold time. On > suggestion, I took a closer look at the distributor–and found the shaft > well on its way to seizing, a chewed up centrifugal advance and a bad > vacuum can. After bolting down a remanufactured piece with a new clamp, problem > solved–for about a week. Once again it is engaging in the weekly task > of walking itself out to about 18 degrees before TDC. As said in the last postings, the > stock-spec chain is tight, the cogs undamaged. What I can see of the cam > gear without bumping the engine over appears undamaged as well. When > resetting the timing, (which is getting to be a weekend routine…) the > distributor clamp is still tight–I can’t move the distributor without > loosening the bolt, so I don’t think that is the cause. > It has been suggested that the harmonic balancer could be at least > partially to blame. (It is 20 years old now). Does this sound logical? > What’s left? If the cam bearings were oversize and the bumpstick was > jumping around and not > engaging the dist drive gear, the distributor gear and the chain should have been > chewed up… > If I wasn’t so scared of the cost and hassle of burning a slug or valve, > I’d be half tempted to just ignore it–lately it seems to be running > better with the timing way out on the front bumper. > C’mon Bob May, CBHVAC, et al, I know you gurus can help me straighten > this out… > TIA > Mark > — > Death is so final for only the living. > –Ozzy Osbourne
Response:
Wait a sec… that would mean it is no longer losing time (or never was…), and each time I "reset" the timing, I’m actually moving the spark *way* late. which would explain why it seems to run better "off time" As usual, I completely overlook the most obvious possibility. I will check this out… THANKS! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > A close look at the balancer will reveal that it is a 2 piece. Take a > paint stick and mark both pieces with a line. If the line diverges after > a timing shift….. > Hello all: I posted awhile back, citing a mild 350 that refused to hold > time. On suggestion, I took a closer look at the distributor–and > found the shaft well on its way to seizing, a chewed up centrifugal > advance and a bad vacuum can. After bolting down a remanufactured > piece with a new clamp, > problem > solved–for about a week. Once again it is engaging in the weekly task > of walking itself out to about 18 degrees before TDC. As said in the > last > postings, the > stock-spec chain is tight, the cogs undamaged. What I can see of the > cam gear without bumping the engine over appears undamaged as well. > When resetting the timing, (which is getting to be a weekend > routine…) the distributor clamp is still tight–I can’t move the > distributor without loosening the bolt, so I don’t think that is the > cause. It has been suggested that the harmonic balancer could be at > least partially to blame. (It is 20 years old now). Does this sound > logical? What’s left? > If the cam bearings were oversize and the bumpstick was jumping around > and not engaging the dist drive gear, the distributor gear and the > chain should > have been > chewed up… If I wasn’t so scared of the cost and hassle of burning a > slug or valve, I’d be half tempted to just ignore it–lately it seems > to be running better with the timing way out on the front bumper. C’mon > Bob May, CBHVAC, et al, I know you gurus can help me straighten this > out… TIA Mark > — > Death is so final for only the living. > –Ozzy Osbourne
– Death is so final for only the living. –Ozzy Osbourne
Response:
Is the timing really moving or are you resetting it every week as some makework? Your balancer could be moving about and if you are chasing the timing mark, you are always going to be having problems. If you do indeed have a moving timing, I’d mark the dist. where it meets the engine and see if that moves. You also know where the vacuum advance is at relative to the rest of the engine and that shouldn’t move. There’s not all that much that can really go wrong here. The crank drives a gear which is keyed onto the end of the crank, the cam’s interface is 3 bolts and a pin and the gear for the dist. is part of the metal of the shaft so it won’t rotate. This leaves the gear on the dist. shaft which is pinned into the shaft of the dist. and a new dist. should have fixed that problem. The bearings on the dist. are pretty much just splash lubed but they shouldn’t be much of a problem as the top bearing doesn’t do much while the bottom bearing does get some splashing from the cam, etc. including pumping of the oil by the gear bouncing up and down as it rotates. If the cam timing is gradually being retarded, you will be having other serious problems by now. I’d just tune it by ear for a start and see if it stays good. You also need to insure that the two advance mechanisms are free and, supprisingly, that the points are well screwed down. I’d also consider putting in a Pertronix module to get rid of timing changes from the points moving about and wearing down. — Bob May Remember that computers do exactly what you tell them to do, not what you think that you told them! Bob May
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In all likelihood, PattiW & Bob May are right on…. But, if not, maybe you need new motor mounts?? What I’m getting at is, maybe the distributer is wacking the firewall… is the canister situated where it might be a "lever" to push the distributer around? Just a thought… Scotty – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Hello all: >I posted awhile back, citing a mild 350 that refused to hold time. On >suggestion, I took a closer look at the distributor–and found the shaft >well on its way to seizing, a chewed up centrifugal advance and a bad >vacuum can. After bolting down a remanufactured piece with a new clamp, problem >solved–for about a week. Once again it is engaging in the weekly task >of walking itself out to about 18 degrees before TDC. As said in the last postings, the >stock-spec chain is tight, the cogs undamaged. What I can see of the cam >gear without bumping the engine over appears undamaged as well. When >resetting the timing, (which is getting to be a weekend routine…) the >distributor clamp is still tight–I can’t move the distributor without >loosening the bolt, so I don’t think that is the cause. >It has been suggested that the harmonic balancer could be at least >partially to blame. (It is 20 years old now). Does this sound logical? >What’s left? If the cam bearings were oversize and the bumpstick was >jumping around and not >engaging the dist drive gear, the distributor gear and the chain should have been >chewed up… >If I wasn’t so scared of the cost and hassle of burning a slug or valve, >I’d be half tempted to just ignore it–lately it seems to be running >better with the timing way out on the front bumper. >C’mon Bob May, CBHVAC, et al, I know you gurus can help me straighten >this out… >TIA >Mark
Response:
Plenty of clearance there. I swallowed my pride and stopped by a local GM dealership. The resident "top mechanic" 1. Told me to scrap the car. 2. Insisted that the dealer could not legally touch the car since it’s modified. 3. Stated that he’s seen two cranks of this generation fail in such a manner that the snout is no longer stationary in relation to the rest of the crank. So I visit an AutoZone I haven’t been to before. The counter guy says that if the distributor is off one tooth, this could be the cause. I asked why that mattered, since I could rotate the housing to compensate. He said "it just does." But thanks for the idea, it was a look I hadn’t considered yet… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > In all likelihood, PattiW & Bob May are right on…. > But, if not, maybe you need new motor mounts?? What I’m getting > at is, maybe the distributer is wacking the firewall… is the canister > situated where it might be a "lever" to push the distributer around? > Just a thought… > Scotty >Hello all: I posted awhile back, citing a mild 350 that refused to hold >time. On suggestion, I took a closer look at the distributor–and found >the shaft well on its way to seizing, a chewed up centrifugal advance >and a bad vacuum can. After bolting down a remanufactured piece with a >new clamp, problem solved–for about a week. Once again it is engaging >in the weekly task of walking itself out to about 18 degrees before TDC. > As said in the last postings, the stock-spec chain is tight, the cogs >undamaged. What I can see of the cam gear without bumping the engine >over appears undamaged as well. When resetting the timing, (which is >getting to be a weekend routine…) the distributor clamp is still >tight–I can’t move the distributor without loosening the bolt, so I >don’t think that is the cause. It has been suggested that the harmonic >balancer could be at least partially to blame. (It is 20 years old >now). > Does this sound logical? What’s left? If the cam bearings were > oversize >and the bumpstick was jumping around and not engaging the dist drive >gear, the distributor gear and the chain should have been chewed up… >If I wasn’t so scared of the cost and hassle of burning a slug or valve, >I’d be half tempted to just ignore it–lately it seems to be running >better with the timing way out on the front bumper. C’mon Bob May, >CBHVAC, et al, I know you gurus can help me straighten this out… TIA >Mark
– Death is so final for only the living. –Ozzy Osbourne
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The dealer says that it’s illegal because they don’t want to say "Nobody will touch it because they wont make rate" The Autozone dude is off in the ozone!
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Plenty of clearance there. I swallowed my pride and stopped by a local > GM dealership. The resident "top mechanic" > 1. Told me to scrap the car. > 2. Insisted that the dealer could not legally touch the car since it’s > modified. > 3. Stated that he’s seen two cranks of this generation fail in such > a manner that the snout is no longer stationary in relation to the rest > of the crank. > So I visit an AutoZone I haven’t been to before. The counter guy says > that if the distributor is off one tooth, this could be the cause. I > asked why that mattered, since I could rotate the housing to compensate. > He said "it just does." > But thanks for the idea, it was a look I hadn’t considered yet… > In all likelihood, PattiW & Bob May are right on…. > But, if not, maybe you need new motor mounts?? What I’m getting > at is, maybe the distributer is wacking the firewall… is the canister > situated where it might be a "lever" to push the distributer around? > Just a thought… > Scotty >>Hello all: I posted awhile back, citing a mild 350 that refused to hold >>time. On suggestion, I took a closer look at the distributor–and found >>the shaft well on its way to seizing, a chewed up centrifugal advance >>and a bad vacuum can. After bolting down a remanufactured piece with a >>new clamp, problem solved–for about a week. Once again it is engaging >>in the weekly task of walking itself out to about 18 degrees before TDC. >> As said in the last postings, the stock-spec chain is tight, the cogs >>undamaged. What I can see of the cam gear without bumping the engine >>over appears undamaged as well. When resetting the timing, (which is >>getting to be a weekend routine…) the distributor clamp is still >>tight–I can’t move the distributor without loosening the bolt, so I >>don’t think that is the cause. It has been suggested that the harmonic >>balancer could be at least partially to blame. (It is 20 years old >>now). >> Does this sound logical? What’s left? If the cam bearings were >> oversize >>and the bumpstick was jumping around and not engaging the dist drive >>gear, the distributor gear and the chain should have been chewed up… >>If I wasn’t so scared of the cost and hassle of burning a slug or valve, >>I’d be half tempted to just ignore it–lately it seems to be running >>better with the timing way out on the front bumper. C’mon Bob May, >>CBHVAC, et al, I know you gurus can help me straighten this out… TIA >>Mark > — > Death is so final for only the living. > –Ozzy Osbourne
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Home Depot Paint Dept. last week….. And he knew even less about the paint !!! Scotty BTW And yes, the dealership guy is doing hallucinogenics…. I mean a crank could bust… (on an angle) but I think you’d certainly "hear" about it.. and I don’t think you could drive it long before catastrophic damage resulted.
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I had that same problem with an HEI that I rebuilt. My problem was that even though the clamp was tight it was turning, and after about a week of turning a tiny bit it stopped and worked fine. — KRAMER Stupid 17 year old kid Kramer’s 350 S-10 www.orangekitty.com/350s-10 The V-8 S-series WebRing http://nav.webring.yahoo.com/hub?ring=V8S10&list AIM: KRAMER4583
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In all likelihood, PattiW & Bob May are right on…. > But, if not, maybe you need new motor mounts?? What I’m getting > at is, maybe the distributer is wacking the firewall… is the > canister situated where it might be a "lever" to push the distributer > around? Just a thought… > Scotty >Hello all: >I posted awhile back, citing a mild 350 that refused to hold time. On >suggestion, I took a closer look at the distributor–and found the shaft >well on its way to seizing, a chewed up centrifugal advance and a bad >vacuum can. After bolting down a remanufactured piece with a new clamp, problem >solved–for about a week. Once again it is engaging in the weekly task >of walking itself out to about 18 degrees before TDC. As said in the last postings, the >stock-spec chain is tight, the cogs undamaged. What I can see of the cam >gear without bumping the engine over appears undamaged as well. When >resetting the timing, (which is getting to be a weekend routine…) the >distributor clamp is still tight–I can’t move the distributor without >loosening the bolt, so I don’t think that is the cause. >It has been suggested that the harmonic balancer could be at least >partially to blame. (It is 20 years old now). Does this sound logical? >What’s left? If the cam bearings were oversize and the bumpstick was >jumping around and not >engaging the dist drive gear, the distributor gear and the chain should have been >chewed up… >If I wasn’t so scared of the cost and hassle of burning a slug or valve, >I’d be half tempted to just ignore it–lately it seems to be running >better with the timing way out on the front bumper. >C’mon Bob May, CBHVAC, et al, I know you gurus can help me straighten >this out… >TIA >Mark
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Have seen a few harmonic balancers fail in the rubber coupling. The outer ring with the timing marks will actually spin a bit with respect to the crank and inner portion of the balancer. Usually due to years of oil leak softening of the rubber layer. Compare the relative position of the timing mark with the key slot on yours with those positions on a known good one first before looking inside at something harder to fix and more expensive. It would be my first inspection. >Hello all: >I posted awhile back, citing a mild 350 that refused to hold time. On >suggestion, I took a closer look at the distributor–and found the shaft >well on its way to seizing, a chewed up centrifugal advance and a bad >vacuum can. After bolting down a remanufactured piece with a new clamp, problem >solved–for about a week. Once again it is engaging in the weekly task >of walking itself out to about 18 degrees before TDC. As said in the last postings, the >stock-spec chain is tight, the cogs undamaged. What I can see of the cam >gear without bumping the engine over appears undamaged as well. When >resetting the timing, (which is getting to be a weekend routine…) the >distributor clamp is still tight–I can’t move the distributor without >loosening the bolt, so I don’t think that is the cause. >It has been suggested that the harmonic balancer could be at least >partially to blame. (It is 20 years old now). Does this sound logical? >Mark
– I don’t want to clog their server with spam. Please post responses. TIA
Response:
is it a hydraulic roller cam in that engine, if so some had the cam drive gear pressed on to the cam so a bronze distributor gear wouldn’t be needed dave
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Plenty of clearance there. I swallowed my pride and stopped by a local > GM dealership. The resident "top mechanic" > 1. Told me to scrap the car. > 2. Insisted that the dealer could not legally touch the car since it’s > modified. > 3. Stated that he’s seen two cranks of this generation fail in such > a manner that the snout is no longer stationary in relation to the rest > of the crank. > So I visit an AutoZone I haven’t been to before. The counter guy says > that if the distributor is off one tooth, this could be the cause. I > asked why that mattered, since I could rotate the housing to compensate. > He said "it just does." > But thanks for the idea, it was a look I hadn’t considered yet… > In all likelihood, PattiW & Bob May are right on…. > But, if not, maybe you need new motor mounts?? What I’m getting > at is, maybe the distributer is wacking the firewall… is the canister > situated where it might be a "lever" to push the distributer around? > Just a thought… > Scotty >>Hello all: I posted awhile back, citing a mild 350 that refused to hold >>time. On suggestion, I took a closer look at the distributor–and found >>the shaft well on its way to seizing, a chewed up centrifugal advance >>and a bad vacuum can. After bolting down a remanufactured piece with a >>new clamp, problem solved–for about a week. Once again it is engaging >>in the weekly task of walking itself out to about 18 degrees before TDC. >> As said in the last postings, the stock-spec chain is tight, the cogs >>undamaged. What I can see of the cam gear without bumping the engine >>over appears undamaged as well. When resetting the timing, (which is >>getting to be a weekend routine…) the distributor clamp is still >>tight–I can’t move the distributor without loosening the bolt, so I >>don’t think that is the cause. It has been suggested that the harmonic >>balancer could be at least partially to blame. (It is 20 years old >>now). >> Does this sound logical? What’s left? If the cam bearings were >> oversize >>and the bumpstick was jumping around and not engaging the dist drive >>gear, the distributor gear and the chain should have been chewed up… >>If I wasn’t so scared of the cost and hassle of burning a slug or valve, >>I’d be half tempted to just ignore it–lately it seems to be running >>better with the timing way out on the front bumper. C’mon Bob May, >>CBHVAC, et al, I know you gurus can help me straighten this out… TIA >>Mark > — > Death is so final for only the living. > –Ozzy Osbourne
Response:
I haven’t seen whether the dist. is turning or not. If it is turning, did you put the sealing washer under the dist. when you put it in? If not, you will have to clamp down a lot to get the dist. to stop turning. Also if the dist. is indeed turning and is retarding, I suggest that you put some lube on the bushings top (especially as this is the one that usually doesn’t get much lube) and bottom. — Bob May Remember that computers do exactly what you tell them to do, not what you think that you told them! Bob May
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She’s got a new balancer now, and the puzzle still continues. Motor mounts (dist possibly whacking the firewall), distributor, timing set, damper have all been inspected, and excepting the mounts, replaced, to no avail. I’m running out of ideas so fast I’ve been replacing parts that don’t look faulty. There simply isn’t much left to check out. A wrench at the local dealership suggested that the crank snout may even be moving around–he claims to have seen it happen. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Have seen a few harmonic balancers fail in the rubber coupling. The > outer ring with the timing marks will actually spin a bit with respect > to the crank and inner portion of the balancer. Usually due to years of > oil leak softening of the rubber layer. Compare the relative position of > the timing mark with the key slot on yours with those positions on a > known good one first before looking inside at something harder to fix > and more expensive. It would be my first inspection. > >Hello all: I posted awhile back, citing a mild 350 that refused to > >hold time. On suggestion, I took a closer look at the > >distributor–and found the shaft well on its way to seizing, a chewed > >up centrifugal advance and a bad vacuum can. After bolting down a > >remanufactured piece with a new clamp, problem solved–for about a > >week. Once again it is engaging in the weekly task of walking itself > >out to about 18 degrees before TDC. As said in the last postings, the > >stock-spec chain is tight, the cogs undamaged. What I can see of the > >cam gear without bumping the engine over appears undamaged as well. > >When resetting the timing, (which is getting to be a weekend > >routine…) the distributor clamp is still tight–I can’t move the > >distributor without loosening the bolt, so I don’t think that is the > >cause. It has been suggested that the harmonic balancer could be at > >least partially to blame. (It is 20 years old now). Does this sound > >logical? > >Mark
– Death is so final for only the living. –Ozzy Osbourne
Response:
That was my thought–it hasn’t gone ‘boom’ yet, so I hope the cranks fine. > Depot Paint Dept. last week….. And he knew even less about the paint > !!! > Scotty > BTW And yes, the dealership guy is doing hallucinogenics…. I mean a > crank could bust… (on an angle) but I think you’d certainly > "hear" about it.. and I don’t think you could drive it long before > catastrophic damage resulted.
– Death is so final for only the living. –Ozzy Osbourne
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Hydraulic, non-roller. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > is it a hydraulic roller cam in that engine, if so some had the cam > drive gear pressed on to the cam so a bronze distributor gear wouldn’t > be needed > dave > Plenty of clearance there. I swallowed my pride and stopped by a local > GM dealership. The resident "top mechanic" > 1. Told me to scrap the car. > 2. Insisted that the dealer could not legally touch the car since it’s > modified. > 3. Stated that he’s seen two cranks of this generation fail in such > a manner that the snout is no longer stationary in relation to the rest > of the crank. > So I visit an AutoZone I haven’t been to before. The counter guy says > that if the distributor is off one tooth, this could be the cause. I > asked why that mattered, since I could rotate the housing to > compensate. He said "it just does." But thanks for the idea, it was a > look I hadn’t considered yet… > > In all likelihood, PattiW & Bob May are right on…. > > But, if not, maybe you need new motor mounts?? What I’m getting > > at is, maybe the distributer is wacking the firewall… is the > > canister situated where it might be a "lever" to push the distributer > > around? Just a thought… > > Scotty > >>Hello all: I posted awhile back, citing a mild 350 that refused to > >>hold time. On suggestion, I took a closer look at the > >>distributor–and found the shaft well on its way to seizing, a chewed > >>up centrifugal advance and a bad vacuum can. After bolting down a > >>remanufactured piece with a new clamp, problem solved–for about a > >>week. Once again it is engaging in the weekly task of walking itself > >>out to about 18 degrees before TDC. > >> As said in the last postings, the stock-spec chain is tight, the > >> cogs > >>undamaged. What I can see of the cam gear without bumping the engine > >>over appears undamaged as well. When resetting the timing, (which is > >>getting to be a weekend routine…) the distributor clamp is still > >>tight–I can’t move the distributor without loosening the bolt, so I > >>don’t think that is the cause. It has been suggested that the > >>harmonic balancer could be at least partially to blame. (It is 20 > >>years old now). > >> Does this sound logical? What’s left? If the cam bearings were > >> oversize > >>and the bumpstick was jumping around and not engaging the dist drive > >>gear, the distributor gear and the chain should have been chewed > >>up… If I wasn’t so scared of the cost and hassle of burning a slug > >>or valve, I’d be half tempted to just ignore it–lately it seems to > >>be running better with the timing way out on the front bumper. C’mon > >>Bob May, CBHVAC, et al, I know you gurus can help me straighten this > >>out… TIA Mark > — > Death is so final for only the living. > –Ozzy Osbourne
– Death is so final for only the living. –Ozzy Osbourne
Response:
I’ve been marking the distributor. It ain’t movin’. I swapped out the timing set for a gear drive. Overkill, yes, but a buddy that owed me had one, so I wasn’t arguing. Thus far, the mark hasn’t wandered but a degree, so I think we’ve nabbed that problem. However, it’s sitting way off in 18 degree land again–I can’t bring it down to my target of 8 degrees; the motor gets rough and starts to die at an indicated 12 degrees. So I figure it must actually be in time, but just isn’t indicating the proper number. So, here goes my off the wall explanation for this: Sitting at a red light the other night, I kicked the heater on hi. The mill died. Turn the blower off, restart, it runs fine. Kick the blower back on, she starts coughing again. I’ve suspected the charging system to be iffy for some time now (sluggish cranking after around town driving, lights dim with the turn signal, etc.) , but it wasn’t exactly at the top of my priority list. So if my alt output is low, it would follow that the coil is sending really lame shots to the plugs. Therefore, is it possible that my inductive timing light, due to low power in the plug wire, is "catching" the pulse and firing the strobe at the wrong time? A bad spark would also tend to explain the rough accel and power loss I was blaming on being out of time. Thanks all for continuing to help out my confused self Mark > I haven’t seen whether the dist. is turning or not. If it is turning, > did you put the sealing washer under the dist. when you put it in? If > not, you will have to clamp down a lot to get the dist. to stop turning. > Also if the dist. is indeed turning and is retarding, I suggest that > you put some lube on the bushings top (especially as this is the one > that usually doesn’t get much lube) and bottom. > — > Bob May Remember that computers do exactly what you tell them to do, not > what you think that you told them! Bob May
– Death is so final for only the living. –Ozzy Osbourne
Response:
lag, anything wrong with the oil pump? Just a thought, pressure? Talladega Greg (grasping for straws) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >She’s got a new balancer now, and the puzzle still continues. >Motor mounts (dist possibly whacking the firewall), distributor, timing set, >damper have all been inspected, and excepting the mounts, replaced, to no >avail. >I’m running out of ideas so fast I’ve been replacing parts that don’t >look faulty. There simply isn’t much left to check out. >A wrench at the local dealership suggested that the crank snout may even be >moving around–he claims to have seen it happen. > Have seen a few harmonic balancers fail in the rubber coupling. The > outer ring with the timing marks will actually spin a bit with respect > to the crank and inner portion of the balancer. Usually due to years of > oil leak softening of the rubber layer. Compare the relative position of > the timing mark with the key slot on yours with those positions on a > known good one first before looking inside at something harder to fix > and more expensive. It would be my first inspection. >> >Hello all: I posted awhile back, citing a mild 350 that refused to >> >hold time. On suggestion, I took a closer look at the >> >distributor–and found the shaft well on its way to seizing, a chewed >> >up centrifugal advance and a bad vacuum can. After bolting down a >> >remanufactured piece with a new clamp, problem solved–for about a >> >week. Once again it is engaging in the weekly task of walking itself >> >out to about 18 degrees before TDC. As said in the last postings, the >> >stock-spec chain is tight, the cogs undamaged. What I can see of the >> >cam gear without bumping the engine over appears undamaged as well. >> >When resetting the timing, (which is getting to be a weekend >> >routine…) the distributor clamp is still tight–I can’t move the >> >distributor without loosening the bolt, so I don’t think that is the >> >cause. It has been suggested that the harmonic balancer could be at >> >least partially to blame. (It is 20 years old now). Does this sound >> >logical? >> >Mark >– >Death is so final for only the living. > –Ozzy Osbourne
Response:
60 pounds cold, high idle; 25 hot in gear at idle. Doesn’t look like a sludged up pump. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > lag, anything wrong with the oil pump? Just a thought, pressure? > Talladega Greg (grasping for straws) >She’s got a new balancer now, and the puzzle still continues. Motor >mounts (dist possibly whacking the firewall), distributor, timing > set, >damper have all been inspected, and excepting the mounts, replaced, to >no avail. I’m running out of ideas so fast I’ve been replacing parts >that don’t look faulty. There simply isn’t much left to check out. A >wrench at the local dealership suggested that the crank snout may even >be moving around–he claims to have seen it happen. >> Have seen a few harmonic balancers fail in the rubber coupling. The >> outer ring with the timing marks will actually spin a bit with respect >> to the crank and inner portion of the balancer. Usually due to years >> of oil leak softening of the rubber layer. Compare the relative >> position of the timing mark with the key slot on yours with those >> positions on a known good one first before looking inside at something >> harder to fix and more expensive. It would be my first inspection. >>> >Hello all: I posted awhile back, citing a mild 350 that refused to >>> >hold time. On suggestion, I took a closer look at the >>> >distributor–and found the shaft well on its way to seizing, a >>> >chewed up centrifugal advance and a bad vacuum can. After bolting >>> >down a remanufactured piece with a new clamp, problem solved–for >>> >about a week. Once again it is engaging in the weekly task of >>> >walking itself out to about 18 degrees before TDC. As said in the >>> >last postings, the stock-spec chain is tight, the cogs undamaged. >>> >What I can see of the cam gear without bumping the engine over >>> >appears undamaged as well. When resetting the timing, (which is >>> >getting to be a weekend routine…) the distributor clamp is still >>> >tight–I can’t move the distributor without loosening the bolt, so I >>> >don’t think that is the cause. It has been suggested that the >>> >harmonic balancer could be at least partially to blame. (It is 20 >>> >years old now). Does this sound logical? >>> >Mark >– >Death is so final for only the living. > –Ozzy Osbourne
– Death is so final for only the living. –Ozzy Osbourne