Question:
> Some good points. However, if a so-called bass player cannot > learn this absurdly simple song off the record, tape, cd, > whatever, it might be time to take up a comb & tissue paper or > penny whistle. Ear training is VERY important and tab for simple > shit like this just discourages it.
Now if he asked for tabs for something like "A Portrait of Tracy", or something like that, I think he’d be forgiven. ;^) **Devenyi**
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> deprived the world of Beethoven. Just because someone can’t learn a song by > hearing it, it doesn’t mean that they can’t produce beautiful music on the > bass. Think before you condemn someone for their poor ear.
I think he’s leading in points with that one ;^) **Devenyi**
Response:
Where can I get the Tabs for ‘No More Tears’ By Ozzy Osbourne? ;-p > Now if he asked for tabs for something like "A Portrait of Tracy", or something > like that, I think he’d be forgiven. ;^) > **Devenyi**
– Before you buy.
Response:
> forgot something… > My way is the musicians way; the way they’d usually teach you > at conservatories.. Take it or leave it y’know? If you don’t like that > way, then just do it your way! Peace…
Just because it’s the musician’s way, it doesn’t mean it’s the absolute, 100% right way. Thinking like that leads to trouble in all circumstances. Hitler’s way was the accepted way in Germany, doesn’t mean it’s right though. I’m not comparing tab/ear training to Hitler, just illustrating my point. Ear training is good. I highly recommend it. Tab is good as well. I highly recommend that too. Whatever someone can do to learn the songs they love is great and I give more power to them. >Hopefully you’re not referring to me, otherwise, the feeling is mutual… >Im not saying Im good, Im not putting people down. The only thing is >I want to have people learning the right way. This is mine, and I wanted >to share it. And don’t give me no crap about not enjoying making music, >coz it’s my life! OBVIOUSLY… not pissing you off? Good, PEACE MAN, >Merijn
There is no need to insult people. You might not have directly put someone down, but it sure sounded like it. There is no 100% right way to anything. I’ve learned this over time. Always be open to new ways to learn something. Happy Learning and Playing, Anthony
Response:
> I am not a fan of tab, I think it’s a crutch and I can’t see any reason why > someone would bother to learn it instead of regular notation.
Do you feel the same about Nashville Notation? A less than standard notation method used by some of the best pickers in the world. Tab is what it is.. a simpler easier to get on to musical notation.. a good tool.. I can read and I use tab a lot. Why not? Do consider learning to read, and studying theory.. but never miss out on a good learning tool because of someone elses goofy idea. However, this > group is open to players of all levels of experience, with all their > differing interests and preferences. Like it or not, tab is very common, > and it’s actually used by a lot of players.
It’s handy, quick and smart. I’ve been playing for thirty > years and can pick up any song just like that, but I can remember how it was > thirty years ago, too, and if someone likes tab for learning, well, then we > don’t need to put him or her down. I’m sure there are a lot of things you > guys have to learn yet, too. Let’s keep it friendly here, we’re all bass > players, after all.
You seem to have reversed yourself at the end for some reason. First you say it’s a crutch, then you say it’s ok. I say.. it’s ok. It’s not meant to be a crutch… it’s a learning tool.. don’t abuse it, use it. Twang! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
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It’s important to read the entire post before responding to it bit-by-bit. Boing!
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My two pence 
Tab is good for transmission around the internet via email and the web. But is it very simplified, tab just does not have the full vocabulary to be useful as a replacement to standard notation. I believe we should use whatever tool is available to get the job done. If you wish to become a well rounded musician you should probably learn to read standard notation. However saying that, one of my friends who has MD for the likes of Gloria Gaynor, has difficulty in reading but has the most amazing ear. Would it be said that he is a bad musician just because he can’t read. What right does anyone have to put anyone else down for how they choose to learn. People can be told "well this is the way i’ve done it, and it worked for me." but we must also see it may not work for other people. Lets learn together, give ideas and not force opinion. Cheers. Nick. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am not a fan of tab, I think it’s a crutch and I can’t see any reason > why > someone would bother to learn it instead of regular notation. > Do you feel the same about Nashville Notation? > A less than standard notation method used by some of the best pickers in the > world. > Tab is what it is.. a simpler easier to get on to musical notation.. > a good tool.. > I can read and I use tab a lot. > Why not? > Do consider learning to read, and studying theory.. but never miss out on a > good learning tool because of someone elses goofy idea. > However, this > group is open to players of all levels of experience, with all their > differing interests and preferences. Like it or not, tab is very common, > and it’s actually used by a lot of players. > It’s handy, quick and smart. > I’ve been playing for thirty > years and can pick up any song just like that, but I can remember how it > was > thirty years ago, too, and if someone likes tab for learning, well, then > we > don’t need to put him or her down. I’m sure there are a lot of things you > guys have to learn yet, too. Let’s keep it friendly here, we’re all bass > players, after all. > You seem to have reversed yourself at the end for some reason. > First you say it’s a crutch, then you say it’s ok. > I say.. > it’s ok. > It’s not meant to be a crutch… it’s a learning tool.. don’t abuse it, use > it. > Twang!
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Some good points. However, if a so-called bass player cannot >> learn this absurdly simple song off the record, tape, cd, >> whatever, it might be time to take up a comb & tissue paper or >> penny whistle. Ear training is VERY important and tab for > simple >> shit like this just discourages it. >There was once a man that could not hear. actually, he could > hear only a >little, but not enough to be classified as being able to hear. > He livedin a >time where a disability such as this meant you were no good to > society. >People had written him off at a young age. One day, he sat down > at a piano >and produced some of the most beautiful music known to man. So, > according to >you, because he could not hear a song to learn how to play it, > he never >should have sat down at the paino in the first place. Thank > you. You just >deprived the world of Beethoven. Just because someone can’t > learn a song by >hearing it, it doesn’t mean that they can’t produce beautiful > music on the >bass. Think before you condemn someone for their poor ear. >Anthony > Your little "fable" is historically inaccurate and beside the > point. Beethoven’s hearing deteriorated later in life. He could > hear quite well as a youngster, in fact. And even if he > couldn’t, most would agree that Beethoven was an exceptional > musical talent, hardly the example for the average musician. And > certainly not on a par with someone who can’t learn "Brown Eyed > Girl" by ear.
there are more people who can’t learn brown eyed girl by ear than you have any idea of. You see.. you’re problem is you seem to think that anyone that can post here or read tab is at a level of ability to pick those notes out. Well.. you’re wrong. LOTS of beginners who can read tab and type haven’t developed their ears that well. so give them a break, will you? Tab is an EXCELLENT learning tool.. so is having your friend show you, ANYTHING that will get you along and keep you playing is GOOD. Beethoven’s inner ear (which is where his > composition came from) was quite superb.
That’s cute, but bullshit. It wasn’t his fucking inner ear.. which is just exactly what beethoven had that didn’t function at all. It was his years and years of devoted study.. something most beginners just don’t seem to have! Lastly, I’m not > condemning anyone, just enouraging so-called musicians to use > their ears, like Mr. Doe’s original post.
By all means use your ears, push it! But use what ever other tools are available, too.. no sense being a dumbass! and that includes tab and this newsgroup. Twang! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * > The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!
Response:
forgot something… My way is the musicians way; the way they’d usually teach you at conservatories.. Take it or leave it y’know? If you don’t like that way, then just do it your way! Peace… Merijn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Hopefully you’re not referring to me, otherwise, the feeling is mutual… >Im not saying Im good, Im not putting people down. The only thing is >I want to have people learning the right way. This is mine, and I wanted >to share it. And don’t give me no crap about not enjoying making music, >coz it’s my life! OBVIOUSLY… not pissing you off? Good, PEACE MAN, >Merijn >The others will be sitting on the crapper with puckered sphincter muscles >saying >"Ooooh – Errrr – Ummm Why doesn’t everyone think like me" " I’m sooo >good >that I can take time to put others down. " My way is the best way" "I am so >great that I can forget about when I started". >Jerkoffs – Fuck all of your assholes with a pineapple. >You are OBVIOUSLY not enjoying your craft. >God gave some of us talents which were meant to be enlightening to the >lives >of others, use it in the wrong way and it will be taken from you. Watch the >signs. >DS >> i remember when i started playing back in >> the stone age, an older wiser bassist from >> my town had to show me were to put my >> fingers for a simple blues tune, but it got me started! that’s not much >> different from tab. there was no such thing as tab/videos >> web sites or whatever, but if there were those things i’m shure i would >have >> tried them. bottom line is you get out what you >> put in,if he wants his ear will to develope it >> will, if he puts in the time! >> aloha,jerry
Response:
You will be rewarded for the wisdom of your post! It really is all about enjoying playing! Whatever one needs to do to learn a song, However long it takes, wherever one needs to go for resources. It Is About Enjoying Playing!!! I would guess that once the original poster does learn the song through tabs, he/she will be inspired to try more, and learn more, and hear more, and I wish them much success!! This is reminiscent of the Suzuki method of learning – and it works! The others will be sitting on the crapper with puckered sphincter muscles saying "Ooooh – Errrr – Ummm Why doesn’t everyone think like me" " I’m sooo good that I can take time to put others down. " My way is the best way" "I am so great that I can forget about when I started". Jerkoffs – Fuck all of your assholes with a pineapple. You are OBVIOUSLY not enjoying your craft. God gave some of us talents which were meant to be enlightening to the lives of others, use it in the wrong way and it will be taken from you. Watch the signs. DS
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> i remember when i started playing back in > the stone age, an older wiser bassist from > my town had to show me were to put my > fingers for a simple blues tune, but it got me started! that’s not much > different from tab. there was no such thing as tab/videos > web sites or whatever, but if there were those things i’m shure i would have > tried them. bottom line is you get out what you > put in,if he wants his ear will to develope it > will, if he puts in the time! > aloha,jerry
Response:
Hopefully you’re not referring to me, otherwise, the feeling is mutual… Im not saying Im good, Im not putting people down. The only thing is I want to have people learning the right way. This is mine, and I wanted to share it. And don’t give me no crap about not enjoying making music, coz it’s my life! OBVIOUSLY… not pissing you off? Good, PEACE MAN, Merijn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->The others will be sitting on the crapper with puckered sphincter muscles >saying >"Ooooh – Errrr – Ummm Why doesn’t everyone think like me" " I’m sooo good >that I can take time to put others down. " My way is the best way" "I am so >great that I can forget about when I started". >Jerkoffs – Fuck all of your assholes with a pineapple. >You are OBVIOUSLY not enjoying your craft. >God gave some of us talents which were meant to be enlightening to the lives >of others, use it in the wrong way and it will be taken from you. Watch the >signs. >DS > i remember when i started playing back in > the stone age, an older wiser bassist from > my town had to show me were to put my > fingers for a simple blues tune, but it got me started! that’s not much > different from tab. there was no such thing as tab/videos > web sites or whatever, but if there were those things i’m shure i would >have > tried them. bottom line is you get out what you > put in,if he wants his ear will to develope it > will, if he puts in the time! > aloha,jerry
Response:
> Some good points. However, if a so-called bass player cannot > learn this absurdly simple song off the record, tape, cd, > whatever, it might be time to take up a comb & tissue paper or > penny whistle. Ear training is VERY important and tab for simple > shit like this just discourages it.
Ahh. Another tab bigot. Okay. As a rule of thumb though, I agree with your point about ear training being important. L.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Some good points. However, if a so-called bass player cannot > learn this absurdly simple song off the record, tape, cd, > whatever, it might be time to take up a comb & tissue paper or > penny whistle. Ear training is VERY important and tab for simple > shit like this just discourages it. >There was once a man that could not hear. actually, he could hear only a >little, but not enough to be classified as being able to hear. He livedin a >time where a disability such as this meant you were no good to society. >People had written him off at a young age. One day, he sat down at a piano >and produced some of the most beautiful music known to man. So, according to >you, because he could not hear a song to learn how to play it, he never >should have sat down at the paino in the first place. Thank you. You just >deprived the world of Beethoven. Just because someone can’t learn a song by >hearing it, it doesn’t mean that they can’t produce beautiful music on the >bass. Think before you condemn someone for their poor ear. >Anthony
Your little "fable" is historically inaccurate and beside the point. Beethoven’s hearing deteriorated later in life. He could hear quite well as a youngster, in fact. And even if he couldn’t, most would agree that Beethoven was an exceptional musical talent, hardly the example for the average musician. And certainly not on a par with someone who can’t learn "Brown Eyed Girl" by ear. Beethoven’s inner ear (which is where his composition came from) was quite superb. Lastly, I’m not condemning anyone, just enouraging so-called musicians to use their ears, like Mr. Doe’s original post. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!
Response:
Well, one thing that’s also important about "hearing" what you play; how can you play along with a guitarist, if you’re not ear- trained? I mean, you have to "hear" if you’re playing the right notes or not. And what about tuning? This isn’t about those silly tabs anymore, what about the importance of hearing for a good musician? ANY musician that wants to become good should train his ears, and everyone can learn it to a certain degree….well, my parents are both musicians, and just told me not EVERY student learns it, but what the hell… It takes practice, but it’ll pay off…Peace, MErijn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> penny whistle. Ear training is VERY important and tab for >simple >> shit like this just discourages it. >Ear training is important? Perhaps for you; maybe not for the >original >poster. I’m sure he/she would be much happier to learn the >song before the >inspiration leaves. >Perhaps the original poster isn’t ready for ear training yet. >Perhaps he >needs to work on finger technique and doesn’t have the time to >concentrate >on learning the song. >ps, simple for you may not be simple for everyone. >Yeah, ear training is VERY important…for GOOD musicians. You >can become a skilled musical technician without it. But not a >GOOD musician. Get it? If your ear is not good enough to pick >up "Brown Eyed Girl," you’ll never be a good musician. Doesn’t >mean you should quit, necessarily. Try playing the violin, for >instance, without a good ear. My point is that bass players >should strive to be good musicians. You disagree? >* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * >The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!
Response:
> Some good points. However, if a so-called bass player cannot > learn this absurdly simple song off the record, tape, cd, > whatever, it might be time to take up a comb & tissue paper or > penny whistle. Ear training is VERY important and tab for simple > shit like this just discourages it.
There was once a man that could not hear. actually, he could hear only a little, but not enough to be classified as being able to hear. He livedin a time where a disability such as this meant you were no good to society. People had written him off at a young age. One day, he sat down at a piano and produced some of the most beautiful music known to man. So, according to you, because he could not hear a song to learn how to play it, he never should have sat down at the paino in the first place. Thank you. You just deprived the world of Beethoven. Just because someone can’t learn a song by hearing it, it doesn’t mean that they can’t produce beautiful music on the bass. Think before you condemn someone for their poor ear. Anthony
Response:
i remember when i started playing back in the stone age, an older wiser bassist from my town had to show me were to put my fingers for a simple blues tune, but it got me started! that’s not much different from tab. there was no such thing as tab/videos web sites or whatever, but if there were those things i’m shure i would have tried them. bottom line is you get out what you put in,if he wants his ear will to develope it will, if he puts in the time! aloha,jerry
Response:
I am not a fan of tab, I think it’s a crutch and I can’t see any reason why someone would bother to learn it instead of regular notation. However, this group is open to players of all levels of experience, with all their differing interests and preferences. Like it or not, tab is very common, and it’s actually used by a lot of players. I’ve been playing for thirty years and can pick up any song just like that, but I can remember how it was thirty years ago, too, and if someone likes tab for learning, well, then we don’t need to put him or her down. I’m sure there are a lot of things you guys have to learn yet, too. Let’s keep it friendly here, we’re all bass players, after all.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> penny whistle. Ear training is VERY important and tab for simple > shit like this just discourages it. >Ear training is important? Perhaps for you; maybe not for the original >poster. I’m sure he/she would be much happier to learn the song before the >inspiration leaves. >Perhaps the original poster isn’t ready for ear training yet. Perhaps he >needs to work on finger technique and doesn’t have the time to concentrate >on learning the song. >ps, simple for you may not be simple for everyone.
Yeah, ear training is VERY important…for GOOD musicians. You can become a skilled musical technician without it. But not a GOOD musician. Get it? If your ear is not good enough to pick up "Brown Eyed Girl," you’ll never be a good musician. Doesn’t mean you should quit, necessarily. Try playing the violin, for instance, without a good ear. My point is that bass players should strive to be good musicians. You disagree? * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!
Response:
I said it before and i’ll say it again,,,,,,,,,,,,, LISTEN TO THE SONG AND PICK IT OFF THE TAPE! So many bass players out there with no "ear"! John Doe
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And what do you propose we do with all of those people who are not fortunate enough to have your fabulous ear for music? Ban them from playing bass? Shoot them? Do you have any deficiencies that you have to work around? I thought not.
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Man, they can learn. Everbody can learn…. Peace, Merijn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >And what do you propose we do with all of those people who are not fortunate >enough to have your fabulous ear for music? Ban them from playing bass? >Shoot them? >Do you have any deficiencies that you have to work around? I thought not.
Response:
Some good points. However, if a so-called bass player cannot learn this absurdly simple song off the record, tape, cd, whatever, it might be time to take up a comb & tissue paper or penny whistle. Ear training is VERY important and tab for simple shit like this just discourages it. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!
Response:
> penny whistle. Ear training is VERY important and tab for simple > shit like this just discourages it.
Ear training is important? Perhaps for you; maybe not for the original poster. I’m sure he/she would be much happier to learn the song before the inspiration leaves. Perhaps the original poster isn’t ready for ear training yet. Perhaps he needs to work on finger technique and doesn’t have the time to concentrate on learning the song. ps, simple for you may not be simple for everyone.