Question:
> hey-ive been playing the bass for like a year now. im decent, for the amount > of practice ive had. but i need to increase my speed. anyone know how i can > do so? > thanks > nick
All I hear from today’s musicians, is how can I go FASTER. Like its some kind of ego trip to be the lightning fast note sprayer player, and that, is supposed to be a good thing. The goal should not be Speed, but the Music!!! The most soulful player can say more with one properly placed note in the music than any flame throwing note burner!!!!! So it is with Bass, and the groove. It’s where the notes go with that of the drummer’s hits, or should I say the spaces left by the drums and bass, that is very important. Too many notes just clogs up the groove. It has to have the spaces to breath too. You have to learn to weave your way around the groove. There are times when you float on the water, there are times when you swim in the water, and there are times when you dive through the water. However, there are times when you will need speed for such things as drum/bass features or soloing. Let me approach the subject of speed in this manner. Before you can think of speed, you have to NOT *THINK* of Speed!!!! You have to *Think* Music first!!!! If it doesn’t relate and fit the music, this becomes an exercise in EGO, not Music!!!! To do so, is the very conscious thought of SPEED, that most times, prevents success of its execution. Speed comes not when you want it, but when the music wants it!!!!! So now, what do I mean by that confusing statement. Well let’s assume that certain things are already in place. You have practiced the basics of finger techniques used in the different styles. All your fingers can be placed in use!!!! You have mastered the execution, and speed is the only thing now most desired. With that in place, you have to develop LISTENING with Distant Ears! That is to *Listen* to yourself *IN* The Music, While You Are Playing, as if *Someone Else* is Doing The Playing!!!! It’s Not *YOU*, but Someone Else in the Water’s flow in the Music!!!!!! You know how it is when the music brings a smile to your face when listening to some really great grooves that are played by others. Well, this other person now, Is YOU!!!! Making yourself smile is now the goal. This only will happen through your Listening To You, In The Music!!! Who is not You. Now, As You Are Playing, You Have To HEAR The SPEED that is NOT THERE Yet FIRST!!! If It doesn’t Relate, or Fit the MUSIC, it’s going to be a Crash and Burn for the MUSIC!!! You CAN’T Do That to the music for the sake of the EGO!!!! You SERVE The Music, It’s Not The Other Way Around!!! HEAR IT, BEFORE YOU PLAYED IT!!! And,… THEN, GO FOR IT!!!! The fingers will know what to do with the 32nd and 64th notes with those other things in place I had mentioned. They will not fail you because the MUSIC will support the speed, and be a better thing for it. The music has to *make* people smile to hear such a thing happen. If that doesn’t happen, what’s the point. EGO???? That will come off like a kid splashing around making Waves of Conflict in the NATURAL Flow of The Music. The Bass and Drums, ARE the Current of the Water within the Music!, and the Listener doesn’t like to swim in the turbulence a storm of misplaced speed creates in that water!!!! Would You???? You have to hear it in the music, before you’ve played it in the music, to know if the Listener will enjoy the speed placed in the *their* Music. It’s not yours!!! Regards, Rich Koerner, Time Electronics. http://www.timeelect.com Service * Repair * Modifications * Design Engineering Live Sound & Studio Production
Response:
>All I hear from today’s musicians, is how can I go FASTER. Like its >some kind of ego trip to be the lightning fast note sprayer player, and >that, is supposed to be a good thing.
I don’t hear this NEARLY as much as I did in the eighties.
Response:
Rich – Your’ is probably the best post I’ve seen on this board. It’s always the same thing for me. I practice my lines and work of all this intricate stuff. By the time we are ready to play the song live, I’ve backed it way, way off. That’s because the drums demand I do so… that’s because the *Rhythm* is the important thing. I want to play music for 3 hours that is appreciated for the whole time… not play ‘impressively’ for 45 minutes and make everyone tired of us. I know I can only take virtuoso bass playing for 1/2 hour before I get sick of hearing it and want to get out of the room. I don’t want to play like that. In other words… I’m playing for those who want to hear songs… not for other bass players! I’ve become happy with that special 2 bar lick that happens one in the song at just the right spot.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> hey-ive been playing the bass for like a year now. im decent, for the amount > of practice ive had. but i need to increase my speed. anyone know how i can > do so? > thanks > nick > All I hear from today’s musicians, is how can I go FASTER. Like its > some kind of ego trip to be the lightning fast note sprayer player, and > that, is supposed to be a good thing. > The goal should not be Speed, but the Music!!! > The most soulful player can say more with one properly placed note in > the music than any flame throwing note burner!!!!! > So it is with Bass, and the groove. It’s where the notes go with that > of the drummer’s hits, or should I say the spaces left by the drums and > bass, that is very important. > Too many notes just clogs up the groove. It has to have the spaces to > breath too. > You have to learn to weave your way around the groove. There are times > when you float on the water, there are times when you swim in the water, > and there are times when you dive through the water. > However, there are times when you will need speed for such things as > drum/bass features or soloing. > Let me approach the subject of speed in this manner. > Before you can think of speed, you have to NOT *THINK* of Speed!!!! > You have to *Think* Music first!!!! > If it doesn’t relate and fit the music, this becomes an exercise in EGO, > not Music!!!! > To do so, is the very conscious thought of SPEED, that most times, > prevents success of its execution. > Speed comes not when you want it, but when the music wants it!!!!! > So now, what do I mean by that confusing statement. Well let’s assume > that certain things are already in place. You have practiced the basics > of finger techniques used in the different styles. All your fingers can > be placed in use!!!! You have mastered the execution, and speed is the > only thing now most desired. > With that in place, you have to develop LISTENING with Distant Ears! > That is to *Listen* to yourself *IN* The Music, > While You Are Playing, > as if *Someone Else* is Doing The Playing!!!! > It’s Not *YOU*, but Someone Else in the Water’s flow in the Music!!!!!! > You know how it is when the music brings a smile to your face when > listening to some really great grooves that are played by others. Well, > this other person now, Is YOU!!!! > Making yourself smile is now the goal. This only will happen through > your Listening To You, In The Music!!! Who is not You. > Now, As You Are Playing, You Have To HEAR The SPEED that is NOT THERE > Yet FIRST!!! > If It doesn’t Relate, or Fit the MUSIC, it’s going to be a Crash and > Burn for the MUSIC!!! You CAN’T Do That to the music for the sake of > the EGO!!!! > You SERVE The Music, It’s Not The Other Way Around!!! > HEAR IT, BEFORE YOU PLAYED IT!!! And,… THEN, GO FOR IT!!!! > The fingers will know what to do with the 32nd and 64th notes with those > other things in place I had mentioned. They will not fail you because > the MUSIC will support the speed, and be a better thing for it. The > music has to *make* people smile to hear such a thing happen. > If that doesn’t happen, what’s the point. EGO???? > That will come off like a kid splashing around making Waves of Conflict > in the NATURAL Flow of The Music. > The Bass and Drums, ARE the Current of the Water within the Music!, and > the Listener doesn’t like to swim in the turbulence a storm of misplaced > speed creates in that water!!!! > Would You???? > You have to hear it in the music, > before you’ve played it in the music, > to know if the Listener will enjoy the > speed placed in the *their* Music. > It’s not yours!!! > Regards, > Rich Koerner, > Time Electronics. > http://www.timeelect.com > Service * Repair * Modifications * Design Engineering > Live Sound & Studio Production
Response:
> hey-ive been playing the bass for like a year now. im decent, for the amount > of practice ive had. but i need to increase my speed. anyone know how i can > do so? > thanks > nick
Practise!! Excercise!! Play scales, arpeggios etc. Do it with syncopation (Have a tune and rythm in mind) when you do practice. Use a midi player and play with the drums. Lock in with it. Speed is an illusion. It is WHEN, you do things, not how QUICK you do things that creates the impression of speed. Timing. Learn that. Speed is not important. — CandyApple ‘64
Response:
> All I hear from today’s musicians, is how can I go FASTER. Like its > some kind of ego trip to be the lightning fast note sprayer player, and > that, is supposed to be a good thing. > The goal should not be Speed, but the Music!!!
First off, I mostly agree with Rich. BUT… 1) I don’t want a steady diet of it (or much of any one thing), but I do enjoy speed metal. It’s an art in itself. 2) Musical comes first – but speed is also good. Even in a laid back groove, there are times a burst of speed really makes the difference. 3) Finally, 90% or more of the people I run across want their money for nothin and their chicks or dudes for free. This mentality wants it all easy. There’s no shortcut to speed for most of us – it takes practice. Just like being good at making music in general requires practice. TANSTAAFL. -Miles
Response:
If you’re playing any faster than Rocco you’re too fast. Speed without content is just so much mental masturbation and little more than an exercise in musically pointless showing off that’s lost on everybody except for other shredwankers (unless you happen to be as tasteful as Billy Sheehan in the process). JD
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> All I hear from today’s musicians, is how can I go FASTER. Like its > some kind of ego trip to be the lightning fast note sprayer player, and > that, is supposed to be a good thing. > The goal should not be Speed, but the Music!!! > First off, I mostly agree with Rich. > BUT… > 1) I don’t want a steady diet of it (or much of any one thing), > but I do enjoy speed metal. It’s an art in itself. > 2) Musical comes first – but speed is also good. Even in a laid > back groove, there are times a burst of speed really makes > the difference. > 3) Finally, 90% or more of the people I run across want their > money for nothin and their chicks or dudes for free. This > mentality wants it all easy. There’s no shortcut to speed > for most of us – it takes practice. Just like being good > at making music in general requires practice. TANSTAAFL. > -Miles
Response:
> If you’re playing any faster than Rocco you’re too fast. Speed without > content is just so much mental masturbation and little more than an exercise > in musically pointless showing off that’s lost on everybody except for other > shredwankers (unless you happen to be as tasteful as Billy Sheehan in the > process).
First of all, taste is subjective. Your response sounds condescending and prejudiced. You don’t like it? Great. No reason for name calling or belittling people. Or are you just jealous? 8^) -Miles
Response:
Damn straight man. I was always fascinated by the speed of guitarist like van halen, vai etc but when i heard al di meola i was stunned. Sure he may be pretty darn speedy but when hes not its so much more moving. Same applies to Billy Corgan. His solos are that fast (some of them are thought) but they f***ing rock. Ive always wanted to play fast so i now do this techniques but whats the point if you dont know what the hell youre playing? Harman
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> All I hear from today’s musicians, is how can I go FASTER. Like its > some kind of ego trip to be the lightning fast note sprayer player, and > that, is supposed to be a good thing. > The goal should not be Speed, but the Music!!! > First off, I mostly agree with Rich. > BUT… > 1) I don’t want a steady diet of it (or much of any one thing), > but I do enjoy speed metal. It’s an art in itself. > 2) Musical comes first – but speed is also good. Even in a laid > back groove, there are times a burst of speed really makes > the difference. > 3) Finally, 90% or more of the people I run across want their > money for nothin and their chicks or dudes for free. This > mentality wants it all easy. There’s no shortcut to speed > for most of us – it takes practice. Just like being good > at making music in general requires practice. TANSTAAFL. > -Miles
Response:
->Neither do I. The bottom line for me is that I like music where difficult ->stuff is being done. I like music where tasty stuff is being done. Michael — "I don’t want to achieve immortality through my work. I want to achieve immortality by not dying." – Woody Allen
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >All I hear from today’s musicians, is how can I go FASTER. Like its > >some kind of ego trip to be the lightning fast note sprayer player, and > >that, is supposed to be a good thing. > I don’t hear this NEARLY as much as I did in the > eighties. > Neither do I. The bottom line for me is that I like music where difficult > stuff is being done. That doesn’t always mean the most notes (tapping is > not difficult), but it usually means a fair few. Something hard played fast > is more difficult that something hard played slow. I respect musicians who > can do both, and make it fit a song perfectly. I guess I just get a little > annoyed when people think wanting to play fast is all about ego. It’s about > mastering your instrument (if that can be done) and furthering your ability > (well it is for me anyway). Isn’t that mostly why we’re here on these ng’s? > Harro.
Well, not mostly IMO. I’m of the camp that enjoys building a good groove and a good vibe. In regards to the comparison of something played fast vs. played slow, for many of us the elusive goal is knowing *when* one or two notes per bar is absolutely the proper choice, and not feeling artistically "starved" when playing such arrangements. Our drummer has unbelievable chops, but uses them to play only what is necessary. He has some interesting stories from the 70’s when he was in a Mahavishnu tribute band (he still has his Fibes kit). His take is a bit more banal, as in "playing Mahavishnu won’t get you laid", but these days lectures us hard on taste. It’s actually entertaining, fun, and informative to listen to his pontificating on why Wilson Pickett’s "Midnight Hour" (to use one example) is exactly right, and the permutations since have diluted its impact. He and I share the opinion that for many players, this and other R&B tunes are boring and played to death primarily because these same players thought they could "fix" the original arrangement; that it was too simple. Those fixes sucked the heart of the songs. I see similar forces at play in the criticisms of country music. Too often, musicians are not listening to the lyrics or the melody, only the notes per minute scorecard. — Pat Lyman Heat Of The Night; blues, r&b, and soul band: http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/3012
Response:
> >All I hear from today’s musicians, is how can I go FASTER. Like its >some kind of ego trip to be the lightning fast note sprayer player, and >that, is supposed to be a good thing. > I don’t hear this NEARLY as much as I did in the > eighties.
Neither do I. The bottom line for me is that I like music where difficult stuff is being done. That doesn’t always mean the most notes (tapping is not difficult), but it usually means a fair few. Something hard played fast is more difficult that something hard played slow. I respect musicians who can do both, and make it fit a song perfectly. I guess I just get a little annoyed when people think wanting to play fast is all about ego. It’s about mastering your instrument (if that can be done) and furthering your ability (well it is for me anyway). Isn’t that mostly why we’re here on these ng’s? Harro.
Response:
>It’s actually entertaining, fun, and informative to listen to his >pontificating on why Wilson Pickett’s "Midnight Hour" (to use one example) >is exactly right, and the permutations since have diluted its impact. He >and I share the opinion that for many players, this and other R&B tunes are >boring and played to death primarily because these same players thought they >could "fix" the original arrangement; that it was too simple.
The fact that *they* don’t have the Wicked One as their lead singer may have something to do with it as well! 
That said, rarely have I ever liked a cover as well as the original, though I would choose Pickett’s "Hey Jude" in a heartbeat.
Response:
<snip> > Well, not mostly IMO. I’m of the camp that enjoys building a good groove > and a good vibe. In regards to the comparison of something played fast vs. > played slow, for many of us the elusive goal is knowing *when* one or two > notes per bar is absolutely the proper choice, and not feeling artistically > "starved" when playing such arrangements.
Now that is the deal!!! > Our drummer has unbelievable chops, but uses them to play only what is > necessary. He has some interesting stories from the 70’s when he was in a > Mahavishnu tribute band (he still has his Fibes kit). His take is a bit > more banal, as in "playing Mahavishnu won’t get you laid", but these days > lectures us hard on taste. > It’s actually entertaining, fun, and informative to listen to his > pontificating on why Wilson Pickett’s "Midnight Hour" (to use one example) > is exactly right, and the permutations since have diluted its impact. He > and I share the opinion that for many players, this and other R&B tunes are > boring and played to death primarily because these same players thought they > could "fix" the original arrangement; that it was too simple. Those fixes > sucked the heart of the songs.
> I see similar forces at play in the criticisms of country music. Too often, > musicians are not listening to the lyrics or the melody, only the notes per > minute scorecard.
> — > Pat Lyman
Pat, I wish I could go hear your band, and dig the vibe!!!! It must be Great!!!! Regards, Rich Koerner, Time Electronics. http://www.timeelect.com Service * Repair * Modifications * Design Engineering Live Sound & Studio Production
Response:
I agree with Pat and Rich, as far as playing "with" a band! I like to sit at home alone and hit as many notes as i want, imagine I’m *whomever*, and even record it if I want with drums and all, but as far as playing "WITH" a band… I once tried to explain to my band that a certain song need "holes big enough to drive a truck through". I said that most people will add in their own "implied" rhythms, beats, when we hold back enough to cause them to. They laughed at me!! hee-hee, the more they laughed, the more they proved their inability to see clearly. Oh well, perhaps someday I’ll find a drummer who won’t want to hit a "note" till he is about to fall off his stool from anticipation, and a guitarist who won’t buy a new pedal to "fill" every new song. You need to (in my philosophy) find that place where something tells you to try adding another beat, and then be able to restrain yourself, and not to necessarily hit it, but leave it to the crowd to find it. Of course you have to tease them to that point where they will find it, thus the dance begins. — r. (snappy witticism)
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > <snip> > Well, not mostly IMO. I’m of the camp that enjoys building a good groove > and a good vibe. In regards to the comparison of something played fast vs. > played slow, for many of us the elusive goal is knowing *when* one or two > notes per bar is absolutely the proper choice, and not feeling artistically > "starved" when playing such arrangements. > Now that is the deal!!! > Our drummer has unbelievable chops, but uses them to play only what is > necessary. He has some interesting stories from the 70’s when he was in a > Mahavishnu tribute band (he still has his Fibes kit). His take is a bit > more banal, as in "playing Mahavishnu won’t get you laid", but these days > lectures us hard on taste. > It’s actually entertaining, fun, and informative to listen to his > pontificating on why Wilson Pickett’s "Midnight Hour" (to use one example) > is exactly right, and the permutations since have diluted its impact. He > and I share the opinion that for many players, this and other R&B tunes are > boring and played to death primarily because these same players thought they > could "fix" the original arrangement; that it was too simple. Those fixes > sucked the heart of the songs. > I see similar forces at play in the criticisms of country music. Too often, > musicians are not listening to the lyrics or the melody, only the notes per > minute scorecard. > — > Pat Lyman > Pat, I wish I could go hear your band, and dig the vibe!!!! > It must be Great!!!! > Regards, > Rich Koerner, > Time Electronics. > http://www.timeelect.com > Service * Repair * Modifications * Design Engineering > Live Sound & Studio Production
Response:
Tastefull,and Billy Sheehan are two words that dont belong in the same sentance.Especially in this context. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > If you’re playing any faster than Rocco you’re too > fast. Speed without > content is just so much mental masturbation and little > more than an exercise > in musically pointless showing off that’s lost on > everybody except for other > shredwankers (unless you happen to be as tasteful as > Billy Sheehan in the > process). > JD > > All I hear from today’s musicians, is how can I go > FASTER. Like its > > some kind of ego trip to be the lightning fast > note sprayer player, and > > that, is supposed to be a good thing. > > The goal should not be Speed, but the Music!!! > First off, I mostly agree with Rich. > BUT… > 1) I don’t want a steady diet of it (or much of any > one thing), > but I do enjoy speed metal. It’s an art in > itself. > 2) Musical comes first – but speed is also good. > Even in a laid > back groove, there are times a burst of speed > really makes > the difference. > 3) Finally, 90% or more of the people I run across > want their > money for nothin and their chicks or dudes for > free. This > mentality wants it all easy. There’s no shortcut > to speed > for most of us – it takes practice. Just like > being good > at making music in general requires practice. > TANSTAAFL. > -Miles
* Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping. Smart is Beautiful
Response:
No, actually, the reason many people are here in this ng recently is so they can make long speeches, filled with capital letters and hundreds of exclamation marks, about "groove". "Groove", of course, is the favorite expression of the entire staff at Bass Player magazine (which should tell you something), and is the most undefined, overbroad, useless, and meaningless term ever to be applied to bass playing. It means everything from "a tasteful rhythm that really makes people move" to "I can’t play anything even remotely technically difficult, so I’m a ‘groove’ player and will make fun of you if you try to play anything faster than I can play". "Groove" as a descriptive term has exactly the same value as "punchy", "phat", "world class", or "high tech". I suspect that many people who wax rhapsodic over "groove" are also "audiophiles", who are people whose very lives are defined by meaningless catch phrases. They most likely also spend too much time listening to Art Bell. Good grief.
Response:
: No, actually, the reason many people are here in this ng recently is so they : can make long speeches, filled with capital letters and hundreds of : exclamation marks, about "groove". Hey Brian, nice long speech about "groove" but not enough capital letters or exclamation marks! 
: "Groove", of course, is the favorite : expression of the entire staff at Bass Player magazine (which should tell : you something), and is the most undefined, overbroad, useless, and : meaningless term ever to be applied to bass playing. It means everything : from "a tasteful rhythm that really makes people move" to "I can’t play : anything even remotely technically difficult, so I’m a ‘groove’ player and : will make fun of you if you try to play anything faster than I can play". I don’t quite agree with this. Yeah, a groove is a rhythm that makes people move, but it doesn’t necessarily imply that a player has no chops. Victor Wooten sure can groove his butt off, and there isn’t anyone here I’d bet who can equal him when he’s in chops mode. And being a "groove" player isn’t bad. I saw a clinic with drummer "pistol" allen who did the groove behind a *major* number of motown hits. How many of us could even dream of a resume like that? A "groove" player. : "Groove" as a descriptive term has exactly the same value as "punchy", : "phat", "world class", or "high tech". I suspect that many people who wax : rhapsodic over "groove" are also "audiophiles", who are people whose very : lives are defined by meaningless catch phrases. They most likely also spend : too much time listening to Art Bell. There is no doubt that some of our music terminology leaves a bit to be desired as precise terms, but I think I do have at least some idea of what "groove" or "punchy" or "phat" implies. Yeah, audiophiles do tend to go overboard choosing speakers with a ’sense of humor" etc. but I don’t think this blast against the term "groove" is quite justifed. Benj SPAM-GUARD! Remove "user.", if present, from address to email me.
Response:
As usual, I don’t disagree with you — but, the point is, "groove" seems to have no set definition, everyone uses it to suit their own particular needs at the moment, and in the context of this thread, it is being used to lecture to someone who asked for tips on increasing his speed. This reminds me of the recent thread where some unfortunate player asked for advice on buying a compressor and instead got about a week’s worth of ranting, raving and preaching about why he didn’t need a compressor. Sure, you gotta groove, but dammit, sometimes you got to be able to play fast in order to groove. "Groove", whatever it is, is not a reason not to learn to play fast when you need to. Now, of course, all I’ve done here is rant and rave, and not given the guy any help in getting faster, so I’ll just shut up now.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> As usual, I don’t disagree with you — but, the point is, "groove" seems to > have no set definition, everyone uses it to suit their own particular needs > at the moment, and in the context of this thread, it is being used to > lecture to someone who asked for tips on increasing his speed. This reminds > me of the recent thread where some unfortunate player asked for advice on > buying a compressor and instead got about a week’s worth of ranting, raving > and preaching about why he didn’t need a compressor. Sure, you gotta > groove, but dammit, sometimes you got to be able to play fast in order to > groove. "Groove", whatever it is, is not a reason not to learn to play fast > when you need to. > Now, of course, all I’ve done here is rant and rave, and not given the guy > any help in getting faster, so I’ll just shut up now.
Hey, I for one would be *glad* to have some universally accepted defintion for groove. You yourself had suggested "a tasteful rhythm that really makes people move". I like that and try to adhere to it. I apologize if I appeared to be ridiculing the pursuit of speed. A poster had used words consistent with the notion that a great many of us were in this ng for that purpose and I offered a differing view. It’s been my unfortunate experience that those who pursue speed in and of itself tend to believe chops alone are a fulfilling musical experience. It would appear one or two folks agree with me. I’ve also noticed that those who endeavor to learn difficult music, at whatever pace or metronomic time is necessary, are the ones ending up having really great chops, and many of us choose to emulate. When asked on his video how he obtained such endurance, Jaco replied "playing lots of gigs". I don’t have all the interviews available right now, but IIRC most of the chops gods didn’t pursue chops. They pursued difficult and/or fast music, and acquired the chops in the process. — Pat Lyman Heat Of The Night; R&B, blues, and soul band: http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/3012 Before you buy.
Response:
>The compressor is the crutch for the lack of touch control.
Compression is for largely misunderstood by bass players. It’s a great tone altering tool that has nothing to do with a player’s abilities any more than chorus or envelope filters do. Marcus Miller doesn’t use compression ’cause he’s got control problems. No effect should be used to compensate for lousy technique. jb
Response:
Well, I did give some advice on increasing speed, because sometimes it is NECESSARY. This Sunday, we started to play a song. It’s fast, and the bassline is pretty basic repeating scale, locked with the drum. The keyboard player couldn’t remember what key the song was in ( another LONG story ), and couldn’t play it in the correct key. So there I was, having to hold down the GROOVE, and provide enough fills for the song’s hook so the choir could sing. Needless to say, being able to play fast, improvise on the fly, and try to NOT show disgust while the keyboard player tried to transpose the keyboard to find the song’s key was not easy. Practice, practice, practice. That’s how speed develops. Sometimes you just need it. Later. Before you buy.
Response:
> As usual, I don’t disagree with you — but, the point is, "groove" seems to > have no set definition,
Pickup the box CD set of the METERS!! That is Groove Defined!! Bootsy Collins is another Groove Master!!! Then, see if you can find the words to describe it. I think you will then understand what the others are speaking of. > everyone uses it to suit their own particular needs > at the moment, and in the context of this thread, it is being used to > lecture to someone who asked for tips on increasing his speed.
A well rounded bass player Plays it all!!! Groove first, speed comes later. You have to learn those well placed quarter notes before you can think of placing the 32nd and 64th notes! As for the Tip on Speed! It was already given from the Zen prospective. In case it was missed. The goal should not be Speed, but the Music!!! The most soulful player can say more with one properly placed note in the music than any flame throwing note burner!!!!! So it is with Bass, and the groove. It’s where the notes go with that of the drummer’s hits, or should I say the spaces left by the drums and bass, that is very important. Too many notes just clogs up the groove. It has to have the spaces to breath too. You have to learn to weave your way around the groove. There are times when you float on the water, there are times when you swim in the water, and there are times when you dive through the water. However, there are times when you will need speed for such things as drum/bass features or soloing. Let me approach the subject of speed in this manner. Before you can think of speed, you have to NOT *THINK* of Speed!!!! You have to *Think* Music first!!!! If it doesn’t relate and fit the music, this becomes an exercise in EGO, not Music!!!! To do so, is the very conscious thought of SPEED, that most times, prevents success of its execution. Speed comes not when you want it, but when the music wants it!!!!! So now, what do I mean by that confusing statement. Well let’s assume that certain things are already in place. You have practiced the basics of finger techniques used in the different styles. All your fingers can be placed in use!!!! You have mastered the execution, and speed is the only thing now most desired. With that in place, you have to develop LISTENING with Distant Ears! That is to *Listen* to yourself *IN* The Music, While You Are Playing, as if *Someone Else* is Doing The Playing!!!! It’s Not *YOU*, but Someone Else in the Water’s flow in the Music!!!!!! You know how it is when the music brings a smile to your face when listening to some really great grooves that are played by others. Well, this other person now, Is YOU!!!! Making yourself smile is now the goal. This only will happen through your Listening To You, In The Music!!! Who is not You. Now, As You Are Playing, You Have To HEAR The SPEED that is NOT THERE Yet FIRST!!! If It doesn’t Relate, or Fit the MUSIC, it’s going to be a Crash and Burn for the MUSIC!!! You CAN’T Do That to the music for the sake of the EGO!!!! You SERVE The Music, It’s Not The Other Way Around!!! HEAR IT, BEFORE YOU PLAYED IT!!! And,… THEN, GO FOR IT!!!! The fingers will know what to do with the 32nd and 64th notes with those other things in place I had mentioned. They will not fail you because the MUSIC will support the speed, and be a better thing for it. The music has to *make* people smile to hear such a thing happen. > This reminds > me of the recent thread where some unfortunate player asked for advice on > buying a compressor and instead got about a week’s worth of ranting, raving > and preaching about why he didn’t need a compressor.
The compressor is the crutch for the lack of touch control. A different point of view from one who doesn’t need a compressor should not offend those who use those crutches. The Point was, you don’t *need* them when you develop the control. Not to mention, compressors kill touch dynamics when they are wanted. But then, why bother practicing touch control when I can buy one of those compressors and sound like I have that ability! Just don’t forget to bring it with you, or hope it should not stop working during the song. The Emperor With No Clothes, comes to mind. > Sure, you gotta > groove, but dammit, sometimes you got to be able to play fast in order to > groove. "Groove", whatever it is, is not a reason not to learn to play fast > when you need to.
To practice speed, just play what is already mastered, faster!!! Why not get on the same page with most of the bass players in this world and discover what the groove is all about. Till then, you will lack the basic knowledge of where the enjoyment of music resides for those who listen to it. Bass Players, like some Guitar Players, want to run before they and walk a good blues in "4" with the smooth silk feel of an experienced master who can shred their butts in a heart beat with SPEED, but doesn’t!!!!! Does the name Victor Lemonte Wooten ring a bell? It’s a Martial Arts Concept!!! BTW, I’ve heard myself play faster on the bass than I have ever played on the guitar. I just wish I could find a drummer that can work with it and make it a fun thing to do. Though, it is not something the music would enjoy. It’s an ego trip. It’s a speed trip!! Like the gun fighters in the old west!! That’s all it is!! > Now, of course, all I’ve done here is rant and rave, and not given the guy > any help in getting faster, so I’ll just shut up now.
Why???? This place is a place for everyone to help each other and to speak their mind. Regards, Rich Koerner, Time Electronics. http://www.timeelect.com Service * Repair * Modifications * Design Engineering Live Sound & Studio Production
Response:
> No effect should be used to compensate for lousy technique. > jb
On the contrary, who cares about technique as long as it sounds good? /K
Response:
Rich, you are misusing the word EGO. Ego is not that which is derived from others. It’s knowledge of the self, that from which confidence and creativity are derived. That which you describe as the good in playing… a music focus, can only be achieved by an individual with an ego. That which you describe as the bad, reflects the absence of an ego. To fill the vacuum… they seek the substitute of prestige, that which comes from the approval of others. The ego, does not require the approval of others. Should it exist, it is only a secondary effect of the prime concern, not the goal itself. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> As usual, I don’t disagree with you — but, the point is, "groove" seems to > have no set definition, >Pickup the box CD set of the METERS!! That is Groove Defined!! >Bootsy Collins is another Groove Master!!! >Then, see if you can find the words to describe it. >I think you will then understand what the others are speaking of. > everyone uses it to suit their own particular needs > at the moment, and in the context of this thread, it is being used to > lecture to someone who asked for tips on increasing his speed. >A well rounded bass player Plays it all!!! >Groove first, speed comes later. You have to learn those well placed >quarter notes before you can think of placing the 32nd and 64th notes! >As for the Tip on Speed! It was already given from the Zen >prospective. >In case it was missed. >The goal should not be Speed, but the Music!!! >The most soulful player can say more with one properly placed note in >the music than any flame throwing note burner!!!!! >So it is with Bass, and the groove. It’s where the notes go with that >of the drummer’s hits, or should I say the spaces left by the drums and >bass, that is very important. >Too many notes just clogs up the groove. It has to have the spaces to >breath too. >You have to learn to weave your way around the groove. There are times >when you float on the water, there are times when you swim in the water, >and there are times when you dive through the water. >However, there are times when you will need speed for such things as >drum/bass features or soloing. >Let me approach the subject of speed in this manner. >Before you can think of speed, you have to NOT *THINK* of Speed!!!! >You have to *Think* Music first!!!! >If it doesn’t relate and fit the music, this becomes an exercise in EGO, >not Music!!!! >To do so, is the very conscious thought of SPEED, that most times, >prevents success of its execution. >Speed comes not when you want it, but when the music wants it!!!!! >So now, what do I mean by that confusing statement. Well let’s assume >that certain things are already in place. You have practiced the basics >of finger techniques used in the different styles. All your fingers can >be placed in use!!!! You have mastered the execution, and speed is the >only thing now most desired. >With that in place, you have to develop LISTENING with Distant Ears! >That is to *Listen* to yourself *IN* The Music, >While You Are Playing, >as if *Someone Else* is Doing The Playing!!!! >It’s Not *YOU*, but Someone Else in the Water’s flow in the Music!!!!!! >You know how it is when the music brings a smile to your face when >listening to some really great grooves that are played by others. Well, >this other person now, Is YOU!!!! >Making yourself smile is now the goal. This only will happen through >your Listening To You, In The Music!!! Who is not You. >Now, As You Are Playing, You Have To HEAR The SPEED that is NOT THERE >Yet FIRST!!! >If It doesn’t Relate, or Fit the MUSIC, it’s going to be a Crash and >Burn for the MUSIC!!! You CAN’T Do That to the music for the sake of >the EGO!!!! >You SERVE The Music, It’s Not The Other Way Around!!! >HEAR IT, BEFORE YOU PLAYED IT!!! And,… THEN, GO FOR IT!!!! >The fingers will know what to do with the 32nd and 64th notes with those >other things in place I had mentioned. They will not fail you because >the MUSIC will support the speed, and be a better thing for it. The >music has to *make* people smile to hear such a thing happen. > This reminds > me of the recent thread where some unfortunate player asked for advice on > buying a compressor and instead got about a week’s worth of ranting, raving > and preaching about why he didn’t need a compressor. >The compressor is the crutch for the lack of touch control. >A different point of view from one who doesn’t need a compressor should >not offend those who use those crutches. The Point was, you don’t >*need* them when you develop the control. Not to mention, compressors >kill touch dynamics when they are wanted. >But then, why bother practicing touch control when I can buy one of >those compressors and sound like I have that ability! Just don’t >forget to bring it with you, or hope it should not stop working during >the song. >The Emperor With No Clothes, comes to mind. > Sure, you gotta > groove, but dammit, sometimes you got to be able to play fast in order to > groove. "Groove", whatever it is, is not a reason not to learn to play fast > when you need to. >To practice speed, just play what is already mastered, faster!!! >Why not get on the same page with most of the bass players in this world >and discover what the groove is all about. Till then, you will lack the >basic knowledge of where the enjoyment of music resides for those who >listen to it. >Bass Players, like some Guitar Players, want to run before they and walk >a good blues in "4" with the smooth silk feel of an experienced master >who can shred their butts in a heart beat with SPEED, but doesn’t!!!!! >Does the name Victor Lemonte Wooten ring a bell? >It’s a Martial Arts Concept!!! >BTW, I’ve heard myself play faster on the bass than I have ever played >on the guitar. I just wish I could find a drummer that can work with it >and make it a fun thing to do. Though, it is not something the music >would enjoy. >It’s an ego trip. >It’s a speed trip!! >Like the gun fighters in the old west!! >That’s all it is!! > Now, of course, all I’ve done here is rant and rave, and not given the guy > any help in getting faster, so I’ll just shut up now. >Why???? >This place is a place for everyone to help each other and to speak their >mind. >Regards, >Rich Koerner, >Time Electronics. >http://www.timeelect.com >Service * Repair * Modifications * Design Engineering > Live Sound & Studio Production
Response:
Rich, you did this on purpose, didn’t you? You read my post in this thread from 4/12 before you re-posted your bit on Zen, dintcha now? Touche.