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An American Way of War: Torture, Rape, Murder

Question:

> As usual, when faced with overwhelming evidence, these types resort to > tangent drivel. "But..But.. what about so an so?"

You’re right. When faced with overwhelming evidence, of the suicide murder of innocents and beheading of "hostages" the predictable cry from the Islam

Response:

As usual, when faced with overwhelming evidence, these types resort to tangent drivel. "But..But.. what about so an so?" — The Best in Message Board Discussions http://www.comicboards.org/religion

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> So what the fuck do you call that bull shit your islamic swine brothers > do? If that is not fucking torture and coceit then you are a lying sack of > shit to. > You mother fuckers are just a whining bunch of ass holes who love to kill. > You justify it through your bull shit islamic names you give these causes, > but in the end you nothing more than a bunch of muderous thieves and > con-artists. You are the ones going to burn in hell, not the rest of the > world, you are the one sacrficing your children and are the falses > prophets spoke of in your guiding book the Quarn, Koran or however it > spelled. > You have not seen the vengence of America until you try to take our > country away like you buddies did to Kuwait and Iraq. We are armed and > will repeal your invasion attempts. > By the way those assholes had it coming to them, the Army performed all > those bullshit trials for world opinion, but most Americans felt those > asshole prisoners got off light compared to the victims of islam. At least > they are alive so the ACLU and the rest of the liberal mother fuckers can > sue the US Government to get their respect back with tidy sums of money. > The people who got their heads cut off can’t get a damn thing back. > So take your bull shit and shove-it, crawl back into your Jihad cave and > die when the bombs fall. > An American Way of War: Torture, Rape, Murder > The photographs of US soldiers torturing Iraqi prisoners have become > symbols of American conceit, American hypocrisy and American > brutality. The folly of the Iraq adventure seems to be summed up by > pyres of naked, bound and hooded men smiled over by the missionaries > of American democracy. More than one right wing commentator in the > United States has likened these acts to college pranks. > http://www.counterpunch.org/siegfried06052004.html

Response:

So what the fuck do you call that bull shit your islamic swine brothers do? If that is not fucking torture and coceit then you are a lying sack of shit to. You mother fuckers are just a whining bunch of ass holes who love to kill. You justify it through your bull shit islamic names you give these causes, but in the end you nothing more than a bunch of muderous thieves and con-artists. You are the ones going to burn in hell, not the rest of the world, you are the one sacrficing your children and are the falses prophets spoke of in your guiding book the Quarn, Koran or however it spelled. You have not seen the vengence of America until you try to take our country away like you buddies did to Kuwait and Iraq. We are armed and will repeal your invasion attempts. By the way those assholes had it coming to them, the Army performed all those bullshit trials for world opinion, but most Americans felt those asshole prisoners got off light compared to the victims of islam. At least they are alive so the ACLU and the rest of the liberal mother fuckers can sue the US Government to get their respect back with tidy sums of money. The people who got their heads cut off can’t get a damn thing back. So take your bull shit and shove-it, crawl back into your Jihad cave and die when the bombs fall.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> An American Way of War: Torture, Rape, Murder > The photographs of US soldiers torturing Iraqi prisoners have become > symbols of American conceit, American hypocrisy and American > brutality. The folly of the Iraq adventure seems to be summed up by > pyres of naked, bound and hooded men smiled over by the missionaries > of American democracy. More than one right wing commentator in the > United States has likened these acts to college pranks. > http://www.counterpunch.org/siegfried06052004.html

Response:

An American Way of War: Torture, Rape, Murder The photographs of US soldiers torturing Iraqi prisoners have become symbols of American conceit, American hypocrisy and American brutality. The folly of the Iraq adventure seems to be summed up by pyres of naked, bound and hooded men smiled over by the missionaries of American democracy. More than one right wing commentator in the United States has likened these acts to college pranks. http://www.counterpunch.org/siegfried06052004.html

Response:

‘Journalists from outside were able to visit places in Iraq where prisoners of Saddam Hussein’s regime had been held. When the Kurds captured Kirkuk, Gwynne Roberts described a visit: ‘ ‘The Kurds guided me into the pitch-black vaults of the security building used as a torture centre. In one cell pieces of human flesh -ear lobes -were nailed to the wall, and blood spattered the ceiling. A large metal fan hung from the ceiling and my guide told me prisoners were attached to the fan and beaten with clubs as they twirled. There were hooks in the ceiling used to suspend victims. A torture victim told me that prisoners were also crucified, nails driven through their hands into the wall. A favourite technique was to hang men from the hooks and attach a heavy weight to their testicles. ‘ ‘These reports were rightly front-page news, but that was partly because Saddam Hussein was the enemy in the Gulf War. The appalling nature of his regime was highly visible and the world was ready to listen to such accounts. For years Amnesty International and others had been reporting similar tortures in Iraq, with little resulting publicity. ‘ ‘And from Kuwait, soon after the Iraqis were driven out, came reports that it was the turn of Palestinians to be tortured. Victims of the new wave of torture were interviewed in Farwaniya Hospital. One Palestinian had half his body ‘1 was tortured with electrical shocks. I became paralysed. ..I was held by an intelligence unit. ..I do not know what is my destiny. I was captured only because I am a Palestinian. They threw me in this hospital. I want to get out of here…out of Kuwait…Please help me. ‘ One thing is clear from this. Cruelty infects the victims like a virus. It spreads itself, transmits itself through violence and anger aimed at the original perpetrator, you can become the perpetrator as well. Cruelty enhances domination. In domination there is safety. Saddam Hussein and others like him are perpetually concerned with personal safety, at the same time as they undermine it by greater and greater acts of cruelty.

An American Way of War:

Response:

THIS DOES NOT HOLD A CANDLE TO THE GRUESOME BARBARIC ACTS OF THE ISLAMIC TERRORIST WHO EVIDENTLY SPEAK FOR THERE RELIGION SINCE NO ONE ELSE SPEAKS UP!!!!!

Response:

> No idea, how’s this relevant to the thread ? > LOL, That one flew right over his head…

So how is the war on drugs relevant to the "war on islam" ? Please explain so that a feeble intellect like mine can be enlightened. I await your wisdom..

Response:

> No idea, how’s this relevant to the thread ?

LOL, That one flew right over his head…

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – message > > > > > > > > > The truth doesn’t bother me; it’s the gross hypocrisy. I > > > believe > > > > > > another > > > > > > > > > example would be a Mafia hit man expressing indignation > about > > > > > someone > > > > > > > > > stealing a pack of gum. > > > > > > > > Mafia is the right word too. Both the Mafia and Islam says "We > can > > > do > > > > > > > > anything we want to you but don’t dare touch us–An attack on > one > > > is > > > > > > > > an attack on the whole family" > > > > > > > Two office buildings get knocked down in Manhattan and suddenly > it’s > > > a > > > > > war > > > > > > for > > > > > > > Civilization. How does that differ from "an attack on one is > an > > > attack > > > > > > on the > > > > > > > whole family"? > > > > > > I believe it was many, including religious figures, in the Muslim > > > world > > > > > who > > > > > > incorrectly declared the US attack on Afghanistan was a war > against > > > Islam > > > > > > that created the impression. The general lack of assistance from > > > Islamic > > > > > > countries in apprehending the perpetrators of 9/11and seeming > support > > > > > > (Palestinians dancing in the streets) did little to eliminate the > > > > > impression > > > > > > that Islam is a all-for-one and one-for-all religion. Besides, if > all > > > > > your > > > > > > concept is that it was only two office buildings being knocked > down > > > then I > > > > > > suppose it is a deadend discussion. The enormity of the crime, > using > > > four > > > > > > airliners filled with innocent people, to advance one groups > personal > > > > > agenda > > > > > > is beyond belief even of a jaded America. It would have been far > > > worse > > > > > had > > > > > > all four jet liners accomplished their primary objective. Add > this to > > > the > > > > > > many previous attacks occurring for years against embassies and > other > > > > > > innocent civilians with the sole intent of hurting non Muslim > > > countries. > > > > > > You can disagree but the idea of a religious war is a one sided > issue. > > > > > For > > > > > > the most part, Americans and other Westerners could care less what > > > your > > > > > > religious belief is. It is Muslims who can’t seem to understand > or > > > accept > > > > > > that life and goodness can occur under any other government than > one > > > > > under > > > > > > Islamic Law. > > > > > ..And besides, if it truely WAS a war on Islam then Islam would no > > > longer > > > > > exist, simple as that. > > > > How’s that ‘War on Drugs’ going by the way? > > > No idea, how’s this relevant to the thread ? > > It speaks to the past success and future wisdom of waging war on things > like > > desired drugs or religions. Beyond the strained equivalence of "religion > is > > the opiate of the masses", making war on a religion usually means the > religion > > wins. > > In other words, it is relevant to this thread because "if it truely WAS a > war on > > Islam" then you would likely no longer exist. Certainly your way of life > would > > be destroyed and your civilization corroded and weakened. > But the whole point is, it ISN’T a war on Islam !!! > Some of the attack dogs in this newsgroup and neocon media seem to indicate that > it is. Trying to mute this sort of message makes strategic sense, it gives you > an advantage if the "enemy" doesn’t know you are attacking them, but it would be > prudent for Islam to assume it is under attack given the rhetoric floating > around.

Why would it be prudent ? If you assume that you are under attack then you are going to start behaving towards the west as if you WERE under attack and that is not the case. Western tolerance is a pretty fickle thing, over the last 50 years western europe and the US have become pretty peaceful and tolerant areas of the world, but if Islam decides that it is at war with the west then sooner or later an Islamic extremist will perform an atrocity that dwarfs 9/11. This would be a very bad thing for Islam, you’ve seen islamophobia grow hugely after 9/11, if Islamic terrorists destroy a western city and the people in the middle east all applaud then what do you think the west will do ? > Can you give any recent examples of religion winning when a war has been > fought against it ? > Holocaust. Utah. Iraq (Saddam was a secularist and the country may become > Shiite).

Holocaust, I assume you mean WW2. This wasn’t a war against a religion this was a war against nazism. Utah ????? When ? I know american history fairly well and I’m pretty sure the Mormons have never faught any wars.. Iraq was UK/US destroying Saddam’s evil, a shiite takeover is not a given deal yet, they may end up with a lot more influence but not all power. > How recent is "recent"? Rome.

Last couple of centuries. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > message > > > > > > > > > > The truth doesn’t bother me; it’s the gross hypocrisy. > I > > > > believe > > > > > > > another > > > > > > > > > > example would be a Mafia hit man expressing indignation > > about > > > > > > someone > > > > > > > > > > stealing a pack of gum. > > > > > > > > > Mafia is the right word too. Both the Mafia and Islam says > "We > > can > > > > do > > > > > > > > > anything we want to you but don’t dare touch us–An attack > on > > one > > > > is > > > > > > > > > an attack on the whole family" > > > > > > > > Two office buildings get knocked down in Manhattan and > suddenly > > it’s > > > > a > > > > > > war > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > Civilization. How does that differ from "an attack on one > is > > an > > > > attack > > > > > > > on the > > > > > > > > whole family"? > > > > > > > I believe it was many, including religious figures, in the > Muslim > > > > world > > > > > > who > > > > > > > incorrectly declared the US attack on Afghanistan was a war > > against > > > > Islam > > > > > > > that created the impression. The general lack of assistance > from > > > > Islamic > > > > > > > countries in apprehending the perpetrators of 9/11and seeming > > support > > > > > > > (Palestinians dancing in the streets) did little to eliminate > the > > > > > > impression > > > > > > > that Islam is a all-for-one and one-for-all religion. > Besides, if > > all > > > > > > your > > > > > > > concept is that it was only two office buildings being knocked > > down > > > > then I > > > > > > > suppose it is a deadend discussion. The enormity of the > crime, > > using > > > > four > > > > > > > airliners filled with innocent people, to advance one groups > > personal > > > > > > agenda > > > > > > > is beyond belief even of a jaded America. It would have been > far > > > > worse > > > > > > had > > > > > > > all four jet liners accomplished their primary objective. Add > > this to > > > > the > > > > > > > many previous attacks occurring for years against embassies > and > > other > > > > > > > innocent civilians with the sole intent of hurting non Muslim > > > > countries. > > > > > > > You can disagree but the idea of a religious war is a one > sided > > issue. > > > > > > For > > > > > > > the most part, Americans and other Westerners could care less > what > > > > your > > > > > > > religious belief is. It is Muslims who can’t seem to > understand > > or > > > > accept > > > > > > > that life and goodness can occur under any other government > than > > one > > > > > > under > > > > > > > Islamic Law. > > > > > > ..And besides, if it truely WAS a war on Islam then Islam would > no > > > > longer > > > > > > exist, simple as that. > > > > > How’s that ‘War on Drugs’ going by the way? > > > > No idea, how’s this relevant to the thread ? > > > It speaks to the past success and future wisdom of waging war on > things > > like > > > desired drugs or religions. Beyond the strained equivalence of > "religion > > is > > > the opiate of the masses", making war on a religion usually means the > > religion > > > wins. > > > In other words, it is relevant to this thread because "if it truely > WAS a > > war on > > > Islam" then you would likely no longer exist. Certainly your way of > life > > would > > > be destroyed and your civilization corroded and weakened. > > But the whole point is, it ISN’T a war on Islam !!! > Some of the attack dogs in this newsgroup and neocon media seem to > indicate that > it is. Trying to mute this sort of message makes strategic sense, it > gives you > an advantage if the "enemy" doesn’t know you are attacking them, but it > would be > prudent for Islam to assume it is under attack given the rhetoric floating > around. > I’m sorry but you are flat out incorrect.

Um, it is prudent for Islam to assume it is under attack and adopt the appropriate defensive postures. That’s just plain logic. > I doubt if you could find one > source where the US states it is a war on Islam but there are hundreds in > which Muslims state it is a war on Islam.

Incorrect. There are "sources" on both sides with say it is a war on Islam. Unless you have a very elastic definition of "source" that changes its meaning when being applied to either the US or Muslims. > Unless, of course, you are saying > Islam is equivilent to terrorism then I would have to agree with your > position.

Terrorism is a tactic Jeff. Islam is a religion. They can’t be equivalent. > Granted, many Muslims may have a perception that there is a war > against Islam but I believe that says a lot about Islamic thinking.

As it is a prudent posture it says something about logical thinking as well. > David > Koresh (the Waco, Texas debaucle) is an excellent example of the leader of a > group creating paranoia among its adherents and having his followers > believing.

And was Koresh’s paranoia somewhat justified? What happened to him by the way? > Perceptions can be confusing. Funny me when I view or hear > about a group of people beheading someone while the perpetuators are yelling > Allah Akbar,

How about shooting civilians while heavy metal music blares from speakers? > or that group takes the word Crusade to mean something other > than an identifier,

Like "mercenary" being only an identifier? > or when a suicide attack causes the deaths of children > with the gleeful yells of Allah Akbar accompanied by dancing in the streets, > the pursuit of known terrorist causes outrage from Islamic leaders from > countries not even on that continent and you tell me it is not a one sided > religious war.

It’s at least two sided Jeff – as your rant indicates. So, as I say, it is prudent for Islam to assume it is under attack. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Can you give any recent examples of religion winning when a war has been > > fought against it ? > Holocaust. Utah. Iraq (Saddam was a secularist and the country may > become > Shiite). > How recent is "recent"? Rome.

Response:

I’m sorry but you are flat out incorrect. I doubt if you could find one source where the US states it is a war on Islam but there are hundreds in which Muslims state it is a war on Islam. Unless, of course, you are saying Islam is equivilent to terrorism then I would have to agree with your position. Granted, many Muslims may have a perception that there is a war against Islam but I believe that says a lot about Islamic thinking. David Koresh (the Waco, Texas debaucle) is an excellent example of the leader of a group creating paranoia among its adherents and having his followers believing. Perceptions can be confusing. Funny me when I view or hear about a group of people beheading someone while the perpetuators are yelling Allah Akbar, or that group takes the word Crusade to mean something other than an identifier, or when a suicide attack causes the deaths of children with the gleeful yells of Allah Akbar accompanied by dancing in the streets, the pursuit of known terrorist causes outrage from Islamic leaders from countries not even on that continent and you tell me it is not a one sided religious war. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Can you give any recent examples of religion winning when a war has been > fought against it ? > Holocaust. Utah. Iraq (Saddam was a secularist and the country may become > Shiite). > How recent is "recent"? Rome.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > > > > > > The truth doesn’t bother me; it’s the gross hypocrisy. I > > believe > > > > > another > > > > > > > > example would be a Mafia hit man expressing indignation > about > > > > someone > > > > > > > > stealing a pack of gum. > > > > > > > Mafia is the right word too. Both the Mafia and Islam says "We > can > > do > > > > > > > anything we want to you but don’t dare touch us–An attack on > one > > is > > > > > > > an attack on the whole family" > > > > > > Two office buildings get knocked down in Manhattan and suddenly > it’s > > a > > > > war > > > > > for > > > > > > Civilization. How does that differ from "an attack on one is > an > > attack > > > > > on the > > > > > > whole family"? > > > > > I believe it was many, including religious figures, in the Muslim > > world > > > > who > > > > > incorrectly declared the US attack on Afghanistan was a war > against > > Islam > > > > > that created the impression. The general lack of assistance from > > Islamic > > > > > countries in apprehending the perpetrators of 9/11and seeming > support > > > > > (Palestinians dancing in the streets) did little to eliminate the > > > > impression > > > > > that Islam is a all-for-one and one-for-all religion. Besides, if > all > > > > your > > > > > concept is that it was only two office buildings being knocked > down > > then I > > > > > suppose it is a deadend discussion. The enormity of the crime, > using > > four > > > > > airliners filled with innocent people, to advance one groups > personal > > > > agenda > > > > > is beyond belief even of a jaded America. It would have been far > > worse > > > > had > > > > > all four jet liners accomplished their primary objective. Add > this to > > the > > > > > many previous attacks occurring for years against embassies and > other > > > > > innocent civilians with the sole intent of hurting non Muslim > > countries. > > > > > You can disagree but the idea of a religious war is a one sided > issue. > > > > For > > > > > the most part, Americans and other Westerners could care less what > > your > > > > > religious belief is. It is Muslims who can’t seem to understand > or > > accept > > > > > that life and goodness can occur under any other government than > one > > > > under > > > > > Islamic Law. > > > > ..And besides, if it truely WAS a war on Islam then Islam would no > > longer > > > > exist, simple as that. > > > How’s that ‘War on Drugs’ going by the way? > > No idea, how’s this relevant to the thread ? > It speaks to the past success and future wisdom of waging war on things > like > desired drugs or religions. Beyond the strained equivalence of "religion > is > the opiate of the masses", making war on a religion usually means the > religion > wins. > In other words, it is relevant to this thread because "if it truely WAS a > war on > Islam" then you would likely no longer exist. Certainly your way of life > would > be destroyed and your civilization corroded and weakened. > But the whole point is, it ISN’T a war on Islam !!!

Some of the attack dogs in this newsgroup and neocon media seem to indicate that it is. Trying to mute this sort of message makes strategic sense, it gives you an advantage if the "enemy" doesn’t know you are attacking them, but it would be prudent for Islam to assume it is under attack given the rhetoric floating around. > Can you give any recent examples of religion winning when a war has been > fought against it ?

Holocaust. Utah. Iraq (Saddam was a secularist and the country may become Shiite). How recent is "recent"? Rome. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > > > > > The truth doesn’t bother me; it’s the gross hypocrisy. I > believe > > > > another > > > > > > > example would be a Mafia hit man expressing indignation about > > > someone > > > > > > > stealing a pack of gum. > > > > > > Mafia is the right word too. Both the Mafia and Islam says "We can > do > > > > > > anything we want to you but don’t dare touch us–An attack on one > is > > > > > > an attack on the whole family" > > > > > Two office buildings get knocked down in Manhattan and suddenly it’s > a > > > war > > > > for > > > > > Civilization. How does that differ from "an attack on one is an > attack > > > > on the > > > > > whole family"? > > > > I believe it was many, including religious figures, in the Muslim > world > > > who > > > > incorrectly declared the US attack on Afghanistan was a war against > Islam > > > > that created the impression. The general lack of assistance from > Islamic > > > > countries in apprehending the perpetrators of 9/11and seeming support > > > > (Palestinians dancing in the streets) did little to eliminate the > > > impression > > > > that Islam is a all-for-one and one-for-all religion. Besides, if all > > > your > > > > concept is that it was only two office buildings being knocked down > then I > > > > suppose it is a deadend discussion. The enormity of the crime, using > four > > > > airliners filled with innocent people, to advance one groups personal > > > agenda > > > > is beyond belief even of a jaded America. It would have been far > worse > > > had > > > > all four jet liners accomplished their primary objective. Add this to > the > > > > many previous attacks occurring for years against embassies and other > > > > innocent civilians with the sole intent of hurting non Muslim > countries. > > > > You can disagree but the idea of a religious war is a one sided issue. > > > For > > > > the most part, Americans and other Westerners could care less what > your > > > > religious belief is. It is Muslims who can’t seem to understand or > accept > > > > that life and goodness can occur under any other government than one > > > under > > > > Islamic Law. > > > ..And besides, if it truely WAS a war on Islam then Islam would no > longer > > > exist, simple as that. > > How’s that ‘War on Drugs’ going by the way? > No idea, how’s this relevant to the thread ? > It speaks to the past success and future wisdom of waging war on things like > desired drugs or religions. Beyond the strained equivalence of "religion is > the opiate of the masses", making war on a religion usually means the religion > wins. > In other words, it is relevant to this thread because "if it truely WAS a war on > Islam" then you would likely no longer exist. Certainly your way of life would > be destroyed and your civilization corroded and weakened.

But the whole point is, it ISN’T a war on Islam !!! Can you give any recent examples of religion winning when a war has been fought against it ?

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > > > > The truth doesn’t bother me; it’s the gross hypocrisy. I > believe > > > another > > > > > > example would be a Mafia hit man expressing indignation about > > someone > > > > > > stealing a pack of gum. > > > > > Mafia is the right word too. Both the Mafia and Islam says "We can > do > > > > > anything we want to you but don’t dare touch us–An attack on one > is > > > > > an attack on the whole family" > > > > Two office buildings get knocked down in Manhattan and suddenly it’s > a > > war > > > for > > > > Civilization. How does that differ from "an attack on one is an > attack > > > on the > > > > whole family"? > > > I believe it was many, including religious figures, in the Muslim > world > > who > > > incorrectly declared the US attack on Afghanistan was a war against > Islam > > > that created the impression. The general lack of assistance from > Islamic > > > countries in apprehending the perpetrators of 9/11and seeming support > > > (Palestinians dancing in the streets) did little to eliminate the > > impression > > > that Islam is a all-for-one and one-for-all religion. Besides, if all > > your > > > concept is that it was only two office buildings being knocked down > then I > > > suppose it is a deadend discussion. The enormity of the crime, using > four > > > airliners filled with innocent people, to advance one groups personal > > agenda > > > is beyond belief even of a jaded America. It would have been far > worse > > had > > > all four jet liners accomplished their primary objective. Add this to > the > > > many previous attacks occurring for years against embassies and other > > > innocent civilians with the sole intent of hurting non Muslim > countries. > > > You can disagree but the idea of a religious war is a one sided issue. > > For > > > the most part, Americans and other Westerners could care less what > your > > > religious belief is. It is Muslims who can’t seem to understand or > accept > > > that life and goodness can occur under any other government than one > > under > > > Islamic Law. > > ..And besides, if it truely WAS a war on Islam then Islam would no > longer > > exist, simple as that. > How’s that ‘War on Drugs’ going by the way? > No idea, how’s this relevant to the thread ?

It speaks to the past success and future wisdom of waging war on things like desired drugs or religions. Beyond the strained equivalence of "religion is the opiate of the masses", making war on a religion usually means the religion wins. In other words, it is relevant to this thread because "if it truely WAS a war on Islam" then you would likely no longer exist. Certainly your way of life would be destroyed and your civilization corroded and weakened.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > > > The truth doesn’t bother me; it’s the gross hypocrisy. I believe > > another > > > > > example would be a Mafia hit man expressing indignation about > someone > > > > > stealing a pack of gum. > > > > Mafia is the right word too. Both the Mafia and Islam says "We can do > > > > anything we want to you but don’t dare touch us–An attack on one is > > > > an attack on the whole family" > > > Two office buildings get knocked down in Manhattan and suddenly it’s a > war > > for > > > Civilization. How does that differ from "an attack on one is an attack > > on the > > > whole family"? > > I believe it was many, including religious figures, in the Muslim world > who > > incorrectly declared the US attack on Afghanistan was a war against Islam > > that created the impression. The general lack of assistance from Islamic > > countries in apprehending the perpetrators of 9/11and seeming support > > (Palestinians dancing in the streets) did little to eliminate the > impression > > that Islam is a all-for-one and one-for-all religion. Besides, if all > your > > concept is that it was only two office buildings being knocked down then I > > suppose it is a deadend discussion. The enormity of the crime, using four > > airliners filled with innocent people, to advance one groups personal > agenda > > is beyond belief even of a jaded America. It would have been far worse > had > > all four jet liners accomplished their primary objective. Add this to the > > many previous attacks occurring for years against embassies and other > > innocent civilians with the sole intent of hurting non Muslim countries. > > You can disagree but the idea of a religious war is a one sided issue. > For > > the most part, Americans and other Westerners could care less what your > > religious belief is. It is Muslims who can’t seem to understand or accept > > that life and goodness can occur under any other government than one > under > > Islamic Law. > ..And besides, if it truely WAS a war on Islam then Islam would no longer > exist, simple as that. > How’s that ‘War on Drugs’ going by the way?

No idea, how’s this relevant to the thread ?

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > > The truth doesn’t bother me; it’s the gross hypocrisy. I believe > another > > > > example would be a Mafia hit man expressing indignation about > someone > > > > stealing a pack of gum. > > > Mafia is the right word too. Both the Mafia and Islam says "We can do > > > anything we want to you but don’t dare touch us–An attack on one is > > > an attack on the whole family" > > Two office buildings get knocked down in Manhattan and suddenly it’s a > war > for > > Civilization. How does that differ from "an attack on one is an attack > on the > > whole family"? > I believe it was many, including religious figures, in the Muslim world > who > incorrectly declared the US attack on Afghanistan was a war against Islam > that created the impression. The general lack of assistance from Islamic > countries in apprehending the perpetrators of 9/11and seeming support > (Palestinians dancing in the streets) did little to eliminate the > impression > that Islam is a all-for-one and one-for-all religion. Besides, if all > your > concept is that it was only two office buildings being knocked down then I > suppose it is a deadend discussion. The enormity of the crime, using four > airliners filled with innocent people, to advance one groups personal > agenda > is beyond belief even of a jaded America. It would have been far worse > had > all four jet liners accomplished their primary objective. Add this to the > many previous attacks occurring for years against embassies and other > innocent civilians with the sole intent of hurting non Muslim countries. > You can disagree but the idea of a religious war is a one sided issue. > For > the most part, Americans and other Westerners could care less what your > religious belief is. It is Muslims who can’t seem to understand or accept > that life and goodness can occur under any other government than one > under > Islamic Law. > ..And besides, if it truely WAS a war on Islam then Islam would no longer > exist, simple as that.

How’s that ‘War on Drugs’ going by the way?

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > The truth doesn’t bother me; it’s the gross hypocrisy. I believe > another > > > example would be a Mafia hit man expressing indignation about someone > > > stealing a pack of gum. > > Mafia is the right word too. Both the Mafia and Islam says "We can do > > anything we want to you but don’t dare touch us–An attack on one is > > an attack on the whole family" > Two office buildings get knocked down in Manhattan and suddenly it’s a war > for > Civilization. How does that differ from "an attack on one is an attack > on the > whole family"? > I believe it was many, including religious figures, in the Muslim world who > incorrectly declared the US attack on Afghanistan was a war against Islam > that created the impression. The general lack of assistance from Islamic > countries in apprehending the perpetrators of 9/11and seeming support > (Palestinians dancing in the streets) did little to eliminate the impression > that Islam is a all-for-one and one-for-all religion. Besides, if all your > concept is that it was only two office buildings being knocked down then I > suppose it is a deadend discussion. The enormity of the crime, using four > airliners filled with innocent people, to advance one groups personal agenda > is beyond belief even of a jaded America. It would have been far worse had > all four jet liners accomplished their primary objective. Add this to the > many previous attacks occurring for years against embassies and other > innocent civilians with the sole intent of hurting non Muslim countries. > You can disagree but the idea of a religious war is a one sided issue. For > the most part, Americans and other Westerners could care less what your > religious belief is. It is Muslims who can’t seem to understand or accept > that life and goodness can occur under any other government than one under > Islamic Law.

..And besides, if it truely WAS a war on Islam then Islam would no longer exist, simple as that.

Response:

> The truth doesn’t bother me; it’s the gross hypocrisy. I believe another > example would be a Mafia hit man expressing indignation about someone > stealing a pack of gum. > Mafia is the right word too. Both the Mafia and Islam says "We can do > anything we want to you but don’t dare touch us–An attack on one is > an attack on the whole family"

Two office buildings get knocked down in Manhattan and suddenly it’s a war for Civilization. How does that differ from "an attack on one is an attack on the whole family"? …

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > The truth doesn’t bother me; it’s the gross hypocrisy. I believe another > > example would be a Mafia hit man expressing indignation about someone > > stealing a pack of gum. > Mafia is the right word too. Both the Mafia and Islam says "We can do > anything we want to you but don’t dare touch us–An attack on one is > an attack on the whole family" > Two office buildings get knocked down in Manhattan and suddenly it’s a war for > Civilization. How does that differ from "an attack on one is an attack on the > whole family"?

I believe it was many, including religious figures, in the Muslim world who incorrectly declared the US attack on Afghanistan was a war against Islam that created the impression. The general lack of assistance from Islamic countries in apprehending the perpetrators of 9/11and seeming support (Palestinians dancing in the streets) did little to eliminate the impression that Islam is a all-for-one and one-for-all religion. Besides, if all your concept is that it was only two office buildings being knocked down then I suppose it is a deadend discussion. The enormity of the crime, using four airliners filled with innocent people, to advance one groups personal agenda is beyond belief even of a jaded America. It would have been far worse had all four jet liners accomplished their primary objective. Add this to the many previous attacks occurring for years against embassies and other innocent civilians with the sole intent of hurting non Muslim countries. You can disagree but the idea of a religious war is a one sided issue. For the most part, Americans and other Westerners could care less what your religious belief is. It is Muslims who can’t seem to understand or accept that life and goodness can occur under any other government than one under Islamic Law. > – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> …

Response:

> The truth doesn’t bother me; it’s the gross hypocrisy. I believe another > example would be a Mafia hit man expressing indignation about someone > stealing a pack of gum.

Mafia is the right word too. Both the Mafia and Islam says "We can do anything we want to you but don’t dare touch us–An attack on one is an attack on the whole family" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Can’t take the truth?! > > Being chastised for torture, by a Muslim, is like the village idiot > > chastising Einstein for a math error. > > > An American Way of War: Torture, Rape, Murder > > > The photographs of US soldiers torturing Iraqi prisoners have become > symbols > > > of American conceit, American hypocrisy and American brutality. The > folly > of > > > the Iraq adventure seems to be summed up by pyres of naked, bound and > hooded > > > men smiled over by the missionaries > > > of American democracy. More than one right wing commentator in the > United > > > States has likened these acts to college pranks. > > > http://www.counterpunch.org/siegfried06052004.html

Response:

> An American Way of War: Torture, Rape, Murder > The photographs of US soldiers torturing Iraqi prisoners have become > symbols of American conceit, American hypocrisy and American > brutality. The folly of the Iraq adventure seems to be summed up by > pyres of naked, bound and hooded men smiled over by the missionaries > of American democracy. More than one right wing commentator in the > United States has likened these acts to college pranks. > http://www.counterpunch.org/siegfried06052004.html

Approved

Response:

Or the Nazis complaining that the Soviets were not respecting their soldier’s human rights..

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The truth doesn’t bother me; it’s the gross hypocrisy. I believe another > example would be a Mafia hit man expressing indignation about someone > stealing a pack of gum. > Can’t take the truth?! > > Being chastised for torture, by a Muslim, is like the village idiot > > chastising Einstein for a math error. > > > An American Way of War: Torture, Rape, Murder > > > The photographs of US soldiers torturing Iraqi prisoners have become > > symbols > > > of American conceit, American hypocrisy and American brutality. The > folly > > of > > > the Iraq adventure seems to be summed up by pyres of naked, bound and > > hooded > > > men smiled over by the missionaries > > > of American democracy. More than one right wing commentator in the > United > > > States has likened these acts to college pranks. > > > http://www.counterpunch.org/siegfried06052004.html

Response:

The truth doesn’t bother me; it’s the gross hypocrisy. I believe another example would be a Mafia hit man expressing indignation about someone stealing a pack of gum.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Can’t take the truth?! > Being chastised for torture, by a Muslim, is like the village idiot > chastising Einstein for a math error. > > An American Way of War: Torture, Rape, Murder > > The photographs of US soldiers torturing Iraqi prisoners have become > symbols > > of American conceit, American hypocrisy and American brutality. The > folly > of > > the Iraq adventure seems to be summed up by pyres of naked, bound and > hooded > > men smiled over by the missionaries > > of American democracy. More than one right wing commentator in the > United > > States has likened these acts to college pranks. > > http://www.counterpunch.org/siegfried06052004.html

Response:

Careful, or there will be panties on your head! > An American Way of War: Torture, Rape, Murder > > The photographs of US soldiers torturing Iraqi prisoners have become > symbols of American conceit, American hypocrisy and American > brutality. The folly of the Iraq adventure seems to be summed up by > pyres of naked, bound and hooded men smiled over by the missionaries > of American democracy. More than one right wing commentator in the > United States has likened these acts to college pranks. > > http://www.counterpunch.org/siegfried06052004.html

Response:

No Woder!!

Response:

Being chastised for torture, by a Muslim, is like the village idiot chastising Einstein for a math error.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> An American Way of War: Torture, Rape, Murder > The photographs of US soldiers torturing Iraqi prisoners have become symbols > of American conceit, American hypocrisy and American brutality. The folly of > the Iraq adventure seems to be summed up by pyres of naked, bound and hooded > men smiled over by the missionaries > of American democracy. More than one right wing commentator in the United > States has likened these acts to college pranks. > http://www.counterpunch.org/siegfried06052004.html

Response:

Can’t take the truth?!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Being chastised for torture, by a Muslim, is like the village idiot > chastising Einstein for a math error. > An American Way of War: Torture, Rape, Murder > The photographs of US soldiers torturing Iraqi prisoners have become > symbols > of American conceit, American hypocrisy and American brutality. The folly > of > the Iraq adventure seems to be summed up by pyres of naked, bound and > hooded > men smiled over by the missionaries > of American democracy. More than one right wing commentator in the United > States has likened these acts to college pranks. > http://www.counterpunch.org/siegfried06052004.html

Response:

i like the way that people like you continue to make such a big deal over these prison pictures but fail to condemn the weekly murders of innocent western civillians, like the bbc cameraman today. it stinks of racism, pure and simple.

Response:

Metal Music | A comment?

U.S. Tortures Iraqi POWs With Heavy Metal

Question:

> I believe the " I love Barney Song" is responsible for hundreds of deaths, > don’t play it backwards whatever you do.

** the "I Love Barney Song" is a clear violation of the Geneva Convention. — Rich, AG6K, 805 386 3734, www.vcnet.com/measures remove ^ from e-mail address

Response:

It’s better than being forced to listen to Billy Graham or Jimmy Swaggarts sermons

Response:

> U.S. Tortures Iraqi POWs With Heavy Metal > LONDON, May 21 (IslamOnline.net & News Agencies) – Creative even in > torture techniques, U.S. soldiers interrogating Iraqi Prisoners of War > (POWs) have resorted to heavy metal music and American children’s > popular programs to break the will of the prisoners.

Damn, and here I have been paying for tickets to see Iron Maiden…….

Response:

I believe the " I love Barney Song" is responsible for hundreds of deaths, don’t play it backwards whatever you do.

Response:

MUHAMMAD’S EARLY TERRORIST ACTS After moving to Medina, Muhammad began to have conflict with the Jews and pagans in the area. I’ll focus on several incidents, not necessarily in chronological order, that illustrate Muhammad as a terrorist. The first terrorist incident involves Muhammad’s command to his followers to "kill any Jew that comes under your power". From Guillaume, op cit, page 369: "The apostle said, "Kill any Jew that falls into your power." Thereupon Muhayyisa b. Masud leapt upon Ibn Sunayna, a Jewish merchant with whom they had social and business relations, and killed him. Huwayyisa was not a Muslim at the time though he was the elder brother. When Muhayyisa killed him Huwayyisa began to beat him, saying, ‘You enemy of God, did you kill him when much of the fat on your belly comes from his wealth?’ Muhayyisa answered, ‘Had the one who ordered me to kill him ordered me to kill you I would have cut your head off.’" END OF QUOTE This story is also supported in the Sunan of Abu Dawud, Book 19, Number 2996: Narrated Muhayyisah: The Apostle of Allah said: If you gain a victory over the men of Jews, kill them. So Muhayyisah jumped over Shubaybah, a man of the Jewish merchants. He had close relations with them. He then killed him. At that time Huwayyisah (brother of Muhayyisah) had not embraced Islam. He was older than Muhayyisah. When he killed him, Huwayyisah beat him and said: O enemy of Allah, I swear by Allah, you have a good deal of fat in your belly from his property. END OF QUOTE This murder was committed upon Muhammad’s command. Note that this Muslim murderer would have killed a family member at the drop of a hat. Muhammad was no better than a bigoted criminal boss, ordering his men to wantonly murder Jewish people. Hitler did this. And, this is what Serbs are doing to the Kosovan Muslims. Muhammad’s command to murder Jews puts him in the same category as Milosovic, Hitler, and others who have persecuted Jews throughout history. A quote from an Islamic scholar – Wensinck writes in his, "Muhammad and the Jews of Medina" [2], page 113: "It is remarkable that tradition attributes Muhammad’s most cruel acts to divine order, namely the siege of Qaynuqa, the murder of Kab, and he attack upon Qurayzah. Allah’s conscience seems to be more elastic than that of his creatures."….. Ibn Ishaq and al- Waqidi report that the prophet said the morning after the murder (of Kab Ashraf), "Kill any Jew you can lay your hands on.". This incident is also documented in Tabari’s History [3], page 97 of volume 7. This shows that Muhammad had unsuspecting people, those who even had good relations with Muslims, murdered in cold blood because they were Jewish. There was no justification to murder these Jews other than they were not Muhammad’s followers. These actions were the work of Muhammad’s terrorists committing murder. ——- The second terrorist incident involves another one of Muhammad’s requests: this one for his men to murder an old Jewish man named Abu Afak. Abu Afak was 120 years. Abu Afak had urged his fellow Medinans to question Muhammad. From Guillaume, op cit., page 675: SALIM B. UMAYR’S EXPEDITION TO KILL ABU AFAK Abu Afak was one of the B. Amr b. Auf of the B. Ubayda clan. He showed his disaffection when the apostle killed al-Harith b. Suwayd b. Samit and said: "Long have I lived but never have I seen An assembly or collection of people More faithful to their undertaking And their allies when called upon Than the sons of Qayla when they assembled, Men who overthrew mountains and never submitted, A rider who came to them split them in two (saying) "Permitted", "Forbidden", of all sorts of things. Had you believed in glory or kingship You would have followed Tubba [NOTE: the Tubba was a ruler from Yemen who invaded that part of what is present Saudi Arabia: the Qaylites resisted him] The apostle said, "Who will deal with this rascal for me?" Whereupon Salim b. Umayr, brother of B. Amr b. Auf, one of the "weepers", went forth and killed him. Umama b. Muzayriya said concerning that: You gave the lie to God’s religion and the man Ahmad! [Muhammad] By him who was your father, evil is the son he produced! A "hanif" gave you a thrust in the night saying "Take that Abu Afak in spite of your age!" Though I knew whether it was man or jinn Who slew you in the dead of night (I would say naught). END OF QUOTE Additional information is found in the Kitab al-Tabaqat al-Kabir, (Book of the Major Classes) by Ibn Sa’d, Volume 2, [4], page 32: Then occurred the "sariyyah" [raid] of Salim Ibn Umayr al-Amri against Abu Afak, the Jew, in [the month of] Shawwal in the beginning of the twentieth month from the hijrah [immigration from Mecca to Medina in 622 AD], of the Apostle of Allah. Abu Afak, was from Banu Amr Ibn Awf, and was an old man who had attained the age of one hundred and twenty years. He was a Jew, and used to instigate the people against the Apostle of Allah, and composed (satirical) verses [about Muhammad]. Salim Ibn Umayr who was one of the great weepers and who had participated in Badr, said, "I take a vow that I shall either kill Abu Afak or die before him. He waited for an opportunity until a hot night came, and Abu Afak slept in an open place. Salim Ibn Umayr knew it, so he placed the sword on his liver and pressed it till it reached his bed. The enemy of Allah screamed and the people who were his followers, rushed to him, took him to his house and interred him. END OF QUOTE From a contemporary Muslim scholar – Ali Dashti’s "23 Years: A Study of the Prophetic Career of Mohammad", [5], page 100: "Abu Afak, a man of great age (reputedly 120 years) was killed because he had lampooned Mohammad. The deed was done by Salem b. Omayr at the behest of the Prophet, who had asked, "Who will deal with this rascal for me?" The killing of such an old man moved a poetess, Asma b. Marwan, to compose disrespectful verses about the Prophet, and she too was assassinated." Prior to listing all of the assassinations Muhammad had ordered, Ali Dashti writes on page 97: "Thus Islam was gradually transformed from a purely spiritual mission into a militant and punitive organization whose progress depended on booty from raids and revenue from the zakat tax." REVIEW Here another man was murdered upon Muhammad’s command. This man was 120 years old. He was no physical threat to Muhammad and he did not urge people to commit violent acts against Muhammad or the Muslims. There was no discussion with Jewish leaders, there was no dialogue with Abu Afak; it was just an outright murder of another one of Muhammad’s critics. Abu Afak urged the people who lived in Medina to doubt and leave Muhammad. Abu Afak found that Muhammad’s sayings were strange and dictatorial. He chided the Arabs that put their faith in Muhammad. Muhammad heard of this and viewed the 120 year old man as a threat to his credibility, not to his life. Nowhere does it say that Abu Afak urged his fellow Arabs to attack or harm Muhammad. Yet for speaking his mind, for the benefit of his friends, this man was murdered by Muhammad. The last statement in Umama b. Muzayriya’s verse reveals something though: "Though I knew whether it was man or jinn Who slew you in the dead of night (I would say naught)." This statement displays that the Muslims knew exactly what they were doing. They knew it was cold-blooded murder that they were committing upon Muhammad’s request. They wanted to keep it secret, they wanted to hide their evil deeds from the populace at large. That’s why Umama said he wouldn’t reveal who murdered Abu Afak. When I think of what type of people order their followers to commit murder, I only can think of organized crime bosses or corrupt political figures. Saddam Hussein comes to mind. How would an Iraqi be treated if he spoke out about Saddam? Amnesty International just reported that over 1500 political prisoners were executed in Iraq last year. Or take the Ayatollah Khomenni. His fundamentalist Islamic regime had other dissident Iranians murdered all over the world. These murderous Muslims represent exactly what Muhammad was all about. They follow Muhammad’s methodology: kill those who are a threat to your credibility and power over others. The third incident involves Muhammad’s request for his men to murder a women named Asma b. Marwan. Quoting from Guillaume, pages 675, 676. UMAYR B. ADIYY’S JOURNEY TO KILL ASMA D. MARWAN "She was of B. Umayyya b. Zayd. When Abu Afak had been killed she displayed disaffection. Abdullah b. al-Harith b. Al-Fudayl from his father said that she was married to a man of B. Khatma called Yazid b. Zayd. Blaming Islam and its followers she said: "I despise B. Malik and al-Nabit and Auf and B. al-Khazraj. You obey a stranger who is none of yours, One not of Murad or Madhhij. {1} Do you expect good from him after the killing of your chiefs Like a hungry man waiting for a cook’s broth? Is there no man of pride who would attack him by surprise And cut off the hopes of those who expect aught from him?" Hassan b. Thabit answered her: "Banu Wa’il and B. Waqif and Khatma Are inferior to B. al-Khazraj. When she called for folly woe to her in her weeping, For death is coming. She stirred up a man of glorious origin, Noble in his

Response:

U.S. Tortures Iraqi POWs With Heavy Metal LONDON, May 21 (IslamOnline.net & News Agencies) – Creative even in torture techniques, U.S. soldiers interrogating Iraqi Prisoners of War (POWs) have resorted to heavy metal music and American children’s popular programs to break the will of the prisoners. Uncooperative Iraq prisoners are being exposed for prolonged periods to tracks by rock group Metallica and music from children’s TV programs Sesame Street and Barney in the hope of making them talk, the BBC News Online reported Tuesday, May 20. "They can’t take it. If you play it for 24 hours, your brain and body functions start to slide, your train of thought slows down and your will is broken. That’s when we come in and talk to them," boasted Sergeant Mark Hadsell, of the U.S.’s Psychological Operations Company (Psy Ops). He admitted that the aim was to break a prisoner’s resistance through sleep deprivation and playing music that was culturally offensive to them. "These people haven’t heard heavy metal," Hadsell told the Newsweek. "In training, they forced me to listen to the Barney "I Love You" song for 45 minutes. I never want to go through that again," one U.S. operative told the magazine. Rick Hoffman, vice president of the Psy Ops Veterans Association, told the BBC radio that "the use of this kind of audio-technique is rather new in interrogation. "There have been other kinds of non-lethal, non-harmful techniques, such as sleep deprivation… which leave no long-lasting effects but do have the end result of breaking down the individual’s will to resist questioning," he said. Torture However, human rights organisation, Amnesty International, charged that such tactics may constitute torture – and Anglo-American forces could be in breach of the Geneva Convention. Amnesty International told BBC News Online that at least one Iraqi captive – a civilian, later released – had reported being kept awake for up to four days by loud music. "This is an issue that seriously concerns us. If there is a prolonged period of sleep deprivation, it could well be considered torture," said an Amnesty International spokeswoman. "It is a very difficult line to draw between what constitutes discomfort and what constitutes torture – that line will vary for individuals and it would depend on each particular case," she added. Reports of U.S.-British torturing of Iraqi civilian have been rife with Amnesty confirming that at least 20 Iraqi prisoners of war complained they had been tortured by Anglo-American forces in central and southern Iraq, Amnesty researcher Said Boumedouha said Friday, May 16. "As of Wednesday we had interviewed 20 people," he said, referring to Iraq prisoners of war who said they had been tortured by Anglo-American troops in An-Nasiriyah and around Basra. When asked, the researcher insisted that torture was the correct word to use for the handling of the prisoners. After returning from Amnesty’s first fact-finding mission in Iraq since 1993, Boumedouha stressed the mistreatment included "beatings with fists, with feet, also with weapons. "In one case we are talking about electric shocks being used against a man and in others people are being beaten for the whole night and are still being kicked and their teeth broken, I think you would call that torture," he said.

Response:

Metal Music | A comment?

Bass player wanted boards?

Question:

Are there any good spots on the web to read or post about bands needing a bass player? Thanks. Yes I am looking in the Seattle area. -David

Response:

http://flaxfield.etowns.net/ http://www.getgigs.com/ http://www.musicians.net/ www.musician.com http://www.harmony-central.com/ — -rob O< "One handed posting folks!" /() ^^

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Are there any good spots on the web to read or post about bands needing a > bass player? > Thanks. > Yes I am looking in the Seattle area. > -David

Response:

Thanks!!!!! -David

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> http://flaxfield.etowns.net/ > http://www.getgigs.com/ > http://www.musicians.net/ > www.musician.com > http://www.harmony-central.com/ > — > -rob > O< "One handed posting folks!" > /() > ^^ > Are there any good spots on the web to read or post about bands needing a > bass player? > Thanks. > Yes I am looking in the Seattle area. > -David

Response:

: Are there any good spots on the web to read or post about bands needing a : bass player? : : Thanks. : : Yes I am looking in the Seattle area. : : -David : : I don’t think it’s free, but check this out. http://www.thestranger.com/gbase/classifieds/Listings?cat=Music&subca… ians%20Wanted It’s specific to the Seattle area. And if it’s metal music, here are 2: http://home.earthlink.net/~alyrocker/truemetalseattle/truemetalseattl… http://scripts.cgispy.com/classifieds.cgi?user=seattlemetal Good luck. — __ ( ): Rain de Leon / http://www.elektrikrain.com

Response:

Metal Music | A comment?

Ozzy is GOD

Question:

I’ll give you a big "HELL YA" on that one. Long live the King!

Response:

> I have been a Ozzy fan since his Black Sabbath days I remember I was > around 7 and listening to my album paranoid. I have >been hooked ever

since. Oh yeah? I remember when I was around 2, listening to my copy of the first Sabbath album that had just came out. Yep, That album made a profound change in me. (Then my mom changed my diapers) And I fondly recall the time I had the good fortune to meet Geezer Butler’s Mother’s hairstylist, in Boise, Idaho. We sipped tea and gossiped about Fred Durst and Mtv all night long like giddy schoolgirls. It was such a wonderful evening! Ozzy, you represent some type of religous icon to me!! — JUst a dUDe=SYYD27=BW

Response:

Ozzy is so cool and you have to give him credit he is still rockin at his age. I have been a Ozzy fan since his Black Sabbath days I remember I was around 7 and listening to my album paranoid. I have been hooked ever since I am now 36 and still a headbanger I have always been a loyal fan of Ozzy and his past and current lineup. I miss Randy Rhoades what a great guitar player and had the chance to meet his brother Kelly when I lived in Southern California. Ozzy has had some great guitar players in his line up Brad Gillis (Night Ranger) Jake E Lee (Badlands) also I must pay my respects for drummer Randy Costillo RIP. I just wish the media would respect metal music and give the bands a chance there is so much good metal music out there but the mainstream media wont play them. I think its funny that the Osbournes in one of the highest rating shows on TV but what sucks its on the crappy MTV channel that wont even play the lastest Ozzy video? Also how much more do we have to put up with Fred Durst what a jerk his band Limp Bizkit and there so called rap metal music and all the rest of the poser pop metal bands dont get me wrong there is some good acts like Incubus-Tool-System Of A Down-and yes the Foo Fighters just remeber Dave from the Foo Fighters wrote some of the songs on Ozzys new album. Long live metal and keep rockin Ozzy you are my GOD.

Response:

Metal Music | A comment?

Has Metal Deteriorated into a Wankfest for Drummers?

Question:

When I listen to a lot of the heavy metal music that is coming out now, or that has come out over the past 10 years, I cannot help but be struck by how much the role of the guitarist has been diminished and the role of the drummer has come to the forefront. In fact, I would go as far as to suggest that what happened in 1980’s metal with shredder guitarists, is happening in todays metal with drummers. In place of the Yngwies and Vais we have Tryms, Hellhammers and Nick Barkers. A lot of band’s music has merely become a wankfest for drummers, with guitarists and even singers being forced into a supporting role. But is this a good thing? When metal became a wankfest for guitarists, it was at the height of it’s popularity. Now that metal is a wankfest for drummers, interest has waned. Obviously lead guitar wanking has more popular appeal than rhythm/percussion wanking. Your comments. Jarl Sigurd to listen to a guitarist who plays more guitar solos than anyone else, http://www.ampcast.com/search/band.php?id=9098 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

> When I listen to a lot of the heavy metal music that is coming > out now, or that has come out over the past 10 years, I cannot > help but be struck by how much the role of the guitarist has > been diminished and the role of the drummer has come to > the forefront.

Me, as a bassist, have to bow down before the althar of the Holy Drummer! Nobody fucks with him! He is all-powerful…. That’s why I ise a drum computer on most of my tracks Honestly, drum solos rule! Plus, the rest of the band can get drinks while the drummer bangs away for 10 minutes! BTW: anyone ever heard of ‘one minute of Brain’? Grtz, RS http://www.mp3.com/kat_yidaki

Response:

Ever think that maybe people got tired of wankfests all together? Do you really think songwriting is second to wanking as you stated in your previous post? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->When I listen to a lot of the heavy metal music that is coming >out now, or that has come out over the past 10 years, I cannot >help but be struck by how much the role of the guitarist has >been diminished and the role of the drummer has come to >the forefront. In fact, I would go as far as to suggest that what >happened in 1980’s metal with shredder guitarists, is happening >in todays metal with drummers. In place of the Yngwies and Vais >we have Tryms, Hellhammers and Nick Barkers. A lot of >band’s music has merely become a wankfest for drummers, >with guitarists and even singers being forced into a supporting >role. But is this a good thing? When metal became a wankfest >for guitarists, it was at the height of it’s popularity. Now that metal >is a wankfest for drummers, interest has waned. Obviously lead >guitar wanking has more popular appeal than rhythm/percussion >wanking. Your comments. >Jarl Sigurd >to listen to a guitarist who plays more guitar solos than anyone >else, http://www.ampcast.com/search/band.php?id=9098

Response:

i have to agree that nu-metal sounds horrible there’s nothing quite like the sound of iron maiden :-

Metal Music | A comment?

Does Comedy Belong in Heavy Metal Music?

Question:

Have any behaviorologists/psychologists investigated the link between headbanging and being completely homosexual?

Response:

Hocus Pocus and all the other Focus stuff is good. In fact, the the first (rock) concert I ever were was the Focus concert in Oslo in 1973. But Metal? No, Focus was a rock-band with some taste of classic music. Their rhytm section exchanged members with the other dutch band, Exception, who played classic music with rock beat. Very good bands both of them. Does anyone know any web-sites adresses?

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My rule of thumb… comedy fits in anywhere, as longs as it’s tasteful, and not making light of a really really bad situation. So yeah, it belongs in Heavy Metal. ::shrug::

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> HM is comedy – who would take it seriously?

People that like to have fun. Headbanging rules. Fuck you. Fuck you. Fuck you. Obviously headbanging has been around as long as (before?) Homo sapiens, but who were the first depictors in our popular culture?

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HM is comedy – who would take it seriously? — * Personal website: http://homepages.tig.com.au/~avanstar "The best personal site on the Web"- Sydney Morning Herald http://smh.com.au/9909/25/showcase.html *Streaming video site – "A Virtual Serenade – 50 Popular Songs in RealVideo": http://www.geocities.com/avanstar

Response:

> Jarl Sigurd > to listen to an extremely serious form of metal/jazz fusion, > visit: http://www.ampcast.com/search/band.php?id=9098

Serious alright, seriously retarded.

Response:

> Does comedy belong in heavy metal music? Or should heavy metal > musicians emerse themselves in a quasi religious seriousness when > they perform their music? Certainly the potential for comedy > is there in the heavy metal genre. Personally I find Cradle of > Filth and Bal Sagoth highly amusing. Dimmu Borgir also, though > I’m not sure if the comedic aspects of that band are intentional. > So what do you think? Does comedy belong in heavy metal music?

Absolutely. One of the things I most like about CoF is their sense of humor, like they are ridiculous and they know it. Mike Sandler

Response:

First off, Jarl is a retard. However, the funniest metal I’ve ever heard was Hocus Pocus by Focus. What’s up with that yodeling? But serious, some of the meanest guitar playing is on that song. Scary. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Does comedy belong in heavy metal music? Or should heavy metal > musicians emerse themselves in a quasi religious seriousness when > they perform their music? Certainly the potential for comedy > is there in the heavy metal genre. Personally I find Cradle of > Filth and Bal Sagoth highly amusing. Dimmu Borgir also, though > I’m not sure if the comedic aspects of that band are intentional. > So what do you think? Does comedy belong in heavy metal music? >Absolutely. One of the things I most like about CoF is their sense of humor, >like they are ridiculous and they know it. >Mike Sandler

Response:

http://globalia.net/donlope/fz/lyrics/Does_Humor_Belong_In_Music.html you’re about 20 years late on this one. check out the lyrics to Cock-Sucker’s Ball. familiar territory for ya Jarl. f

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Does comedy belong in heavy metal music? Or should heavy metal > musicians emerse themselves in a quasi religious seriousness when > they perform their music? Certainly the potential for comedy > is there in the heavy metal genre. Personally I find Cradle of > Filth and Bal Sagoth highly amusing. Dimmu Borgir also, though > I’m not sure if the comedic aspects of that band are intentional. > So what do you think? Does comedy belong in heavy metal music? > Jarl Sigurd > to listen to an extremely serious form of metal/jazz fusion, > visit: http://www.ampcast.com/search/band.php?id=9098

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Macabre.

Response:

Jarl smokes 80 a day and has a cheap Casio. He is also a plagiarist of no mean talent. That means none at all. He is actually about 25 years too late. Captain Beefheart did it first with Trout Mask Replica. That was horrible too. He is barking. (mad) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Ahh..I get it now! > Jarl is actually "Viv Savage" the original keyboardist for Spinal Tap. > IT all comes together!

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> Does comedy belong in heavy metal music?

I thought that’s what you were attempting! Do you mean that all this time you were being serious?!?! Now *that’s* funny… — Honesty is the best policy, but insanity is a better defense. Ric Williams

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Ahh..I get it now! Jarl is actually "Viv Savage" the original keyboardist for Spinal Tap. IT all comes together!

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Does comedy belong in heavy metal music? Or should heavy metal musicians emerse themselves in a quasi religious seriousness when they perform their music? Certainly the potential for comedy is there in the heavy metal genre. Personally I find Cradle of Filth and Bal Sagoth highly amusing. Dimmu Borgir also, though I’m not sure if the comedic aspects of that band are intentional. So what do you think? Does comedy belong in heavy metal music? Jarl Sigurd to listen to an extremely serious form of metal/jazz fusion, visit: http://www.ampcast.com/search/band.php?id=9098

Response:

Metal Music | A comment?

Deep Purple vs Yes

Question:

>I cut my teeth on all of these bands.

They hate it when you chew on them….

Response:

I don’t know if you misunderstood, but my Neil reference was towards the criticism that keyboards players always received if they played solos and were a very visible part of the band. No critic ever thought Neils 8 minute one-note guitar solo in "Southern Man" was musical masturbation, but anything Wakeman or Emerson did was. A keyboard player should be hidden in the back of the band. At least, in the majority of their eyes. And yes, Emerson’s antics were frowned upon while Townsend was lauded for his. Also, Emerson was very early on with his antics. ‘67 with the Nice. Actually before Hendrix’s act. Funny because Townsend’s was pure adolescent violence and Hendrix’s was love, to a degree. Emerson’s was in-between. Rape comes to mind. You’re right, he would get 15 to life! And I am sure that Emerson would tip his hat to Townsend’s ground breaking act. It was the "Isle of Wight" Festival. I believe it was their 2nd or 3rd gig. Wes Taggart

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> As far as musical masturbation goes, I think Neil Young’s guitar-playing > is > at the top of the heap. I will never dispute his songwriting abilities, > but > 8 minutes of the same bent note is pushing way beyond. I don’t see Emerson > pushing out beyond where any guitar player like Van Halen or others have > gone. > Emerson has any guitar player beat in that no matter how good a guitarist > is, Emerson played a Moog synthesizer. I’ll take one note on a Moog to a > million notes from any guitar player. > In fact, I would hazard to say that Van Halen is farther into the many > notes-to-a-bar arena. Difference is that Emerson strode into a guitar > dominated world. Mucho no-no for many in the rock music jury pool. > Yes, and he did it like a guitarist complete with trashing instruments and > playing them in awkward positions. I saw a movie of early ELP at some > festival (I think it was their first major gig…was that Woodstock? > Monterey?..) and if Emerson ever had a woman in a position like he had that > keyboard he would be brought up on crimes against nature charges. > Mike Sandler > www.ampcast.com/michaelsandler

Response:

Mike Sandler wrote > Vocals: Ian Gillian vs Jon Anderson > or: David Coverdale vs Jon Anderson >That’s a tough one. Gillan is very strong and is not stained by that >hippy-dippy New Age vibe Anderson gives off..but man is Anderson’s voice a >wonder to hear. It’s one of those voices where you feel disappointed when he >stops singing.

Really? I thought he had one of those voices where you feel disappointed when he starts singing. Jarl Sigurd to listen to vocals that sound nothing like Jon Anderson, visit http://www.ampcast.com/search/band.php?id=9098

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>> >Vocals: Ian Gillian vs Jon Anderson > >or: David Coverdale vs Jon Anderson > Ian Gillian has a first name that causes certain questions about his > sexual orientation. David Coverdale is fantastic at lawn maintenance. > Jon Anderson sounds like a warbling gerbil. >Mmmmm…… Ian Gillian …… Jon Anderson….. >Aaaaaaah…!!! Gillian Anderson.

And she’s a singer too… Didn’t she do vocals on a track by Hal? I used to have an MP3 with it… but can’t seem to find it anymore.

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Here it is: http://www.thei.aust.com/music3/pow55.html

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Dear God, you are kidding, right ? >To even put the names of the guys in Deep Purple beside the names of >the musicians of YES is absurd. I don’t mean to imply that the Deep >Purple guy’s couldn’t play – they could and quite well. Jon Lord is an >excellent Hammond player and Richie Blackmore is a smokin’ thrash >guitar-type. But the guys from YES are on an entirely different plane >of musicianship. There really is no guitar player (now or ever) that >could stand up to Steve Howe. And while Wakeman is often guilty of >terrible musical masturbation, the YES albums he played on in the 70’s >displayed a level of musicianship unparalled in keyboard terms. Chris >Squire is (next to Jaco) simply the best bass player to ever approach >the instrument. Now Jon Anderson – ok as singers go but being the mind >behind the best of the YES melodies, he is undeniably a genius. Just >listen to Olias of Sunhillow if you need proof. >I’m sorry but there simply is NO comparision between YES and Deep >Purple. Geez, at least compare Genesis if you want to have a >discussion… >JD

YES – dodgy keyboard prog rock Deep Purple – funk metal. Cool. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->If you had to compare them as individual musicians, how would the >classic lineups of Deep Purple from the 70’s compare with the classic >lineups of Yes in the 1970’s? Who is the better musician in each category? >Guitar: Richie Blackmore vs Steve Howe >Drums: Ian Paice vs Bill Bruford >Keyboards: John Lord vs Rick Wakeman >Bass: Roger Glover vs Chris Squire >or: Glen Hughes vs Chris Squire >Vocals: Ian Gillian vs Jon Anderson >or: David Coverdale vs Jon Anderson >Jarl Sigurd >to listen to my first 3 attempts at composing Heavy Metal Music, >visit: http://www.ampcast.com/search/band.php?id=9098

Response:

>I don’t know if you misunderstood, but my Neil reference was towards the >criticism that keyboards players always received if they played solos and >were a very visible part of the band. No critic ever thought Neils 8 minute >one-note guitar solo in "Southern Man" was musical masturbation, but >anything Wakeman or Emerson did was. A keyboard player should be hidden in >the back of the band. At least, in the majority of their eyes.

Wow, now that just goes to show how one man’s garbage is another man’s gold. The guitar solo in Southern Man by Neil Young is, to me, one of the all-time best guitar solos ever recorded. It is perfect in the context of the song, which is the trick that most players miss most of the time. Sure, it’s sloppy but that doesn’t mean it is bad. It is a beautiful slopiness. Sure, it is centered around just a few notes but I’d rather hear one note played 10 times if it is the right note. The way the tempo changes during the solo and moves to double-time and the way Neil reacts to that with his solo is just excellent. I FEEL that guitar solo more than anything someone who would have played 1000 notes in that space could ever make me feel (except boredom) .But then, that song (and the entire After The Goldrush album) has always meant alot to me. I picked up on it when I was 16 (1972) and when I was just learning how to play guitar and I used to spend hours trying to learn to play like Neil Young AND Steve Howe. Just goes to show – there are many different ways to be a great guitar player and alot of it comes from knowing how to play the right thing in the right places at the right time. JD

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I cut my teeth on all of these bands. Pitting one band or player against another like it was a contest is just plain dumb. It was all good at that time. I liked "Burn" I liked "Siberian Khatru". Both cool songs, both cool bands…not much in common between the two. Can’ t we all just get along? Cheers, Rw

Response:

My point is that it is as much musical masturbation as anyone else playing for 8 minutes. 8 minute guitar solo is fantastic to the critics, 8 minute keyboard solo is musical masturbation. Neil is a great song writer and if he wanted to do the one note solo in one song that would be fine for me. In every song puts you into the "just want to hear myself" league. Again I am pushing for equal judgement. This not whether Neil is better than Clapton or minute solo is ok for the goose, then it should be ok for the gander. I personally love the long version of "Whipping Post" which would be, by any standard, filled with wankery. And if you go song by song, I think you will find that ELP had more "short" pieces than Yes. Maybe that makes Yes private school wank rock vs public. Maybe there is the desire to have your music more aloof and uptown. Wes

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I don’t know if you misunderstood, but my Neil reference was towards the >criticism that keyboards players always received if they played solos and >were a very visible part of the band. No critic ever thought Neils 8 minute >one-note guitar solo in "Southern Man" was musical masturbation, but >anything Wakeman or Emerson did was. A keyboard player should be hidden in >the back of the band. At least, in the majority of their eyes. > Wow, now that just goes to show how one man’s garbage is another man’s > gold. The guitar solo in Southern Man by Neil Young is, to me, one of > the all-time best guitar solos ever recorded. It is perfect in the > context of the song, which is the trick that most players miss most of > the time. Sure, it’s sloppy but that doesn’t mean it is bad. It is a > beautiful slopiness. Sure, it is centered around just a few notes but > I’d rather hear one note played 10 times if it is the right note. The > way the tempo changes during the solo and moves to double-time and the > way Neil reacts to that with his solo is just excellent. I FEEL that > guitar solo more than anything someone who would have played 1000 > notes in that space could ever make me feel (except boredom) .But > then, that song (and the entire After The Goldrush album) has always > meant alot to me. I picked up on it when I was 16 (1972) and when I > was just learning how to play guitar and I used to spend hours trying > to learn to play like Neil Young AND Steve Howe. Just goes to show – > there are many different ways to be a great guitar player and alot of > it comes from knowing how to play the right thing in the right places > at the right time. > JD

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Last I checked, Deep Purple was up 3-2 going into the 3rd period. Adam

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heh she’s leaving Xfiles next year y’know.. :-(

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >Vocals: Ian Gillian vs Jon Anderson > >or: David Coverdale vs Jon Anderson > Ian Gillian has a first name that causes certain questions about his > sexual orientation. David Coverdale is fantastic at lawn maintenance. > Jon Anderson sounds like a warbling gerbil. > Mmmmm…… Ian Gillian …… Jon Anderson….. > Aaaaaaah…!!! Gillian Anderson. > Stuart.

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FWIW……While I have long since mastered the bass parts to "Rouindabout"….I can’t say the same for "Smoke On The Water"…That sixth note throws me every time.. Hawkeye

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How about: Guitar: Richie Blackmore Guitar: Steve Howe Guitar: Robert Fripp Drums: Bill Bruford Drums: Carl Palmer Organ: John Lord Organ: Rod Argent Synth: Rick Wakeman Synth: Keith Emerson Bass: Chris Squire Bass: Tony Levin Vocals: Ian Gillian Vocals: Jon Anderson Flute: Ian Anderson Shakuhachi Samples: Peter Gabriel Front Cover: Roger Dean Inner Cover: H.R. Geiger and the London Philharmonic Orchestra.

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> If you had to compare them as individual musicians, how would the > classic lineups of Deep Purple from the 70’s compare with the classic > lineups of Yes in the 1970’s? Who is the better musician in each category? > Guitar: Richie Blackmore vs Steve Howe

Howe…much more versatile even though he has that gawdawful tone. > Drums: Ian Paice vs Bill Bruford

Bruford is God. Any questions? > Keyboards: John Lord vs Rick Wakeman

Wakeman is more versatile. > Bass: Roger Glover vs Chris Squire > or: Glen Hughes vs Chris Squire

Again, I go with Yes. > Vocals: Ian Gillian vs Jon Anderson > or: David Coverdale vs Jon Anderson

That’s a tough one. Gillan is very strong and is not stained by that hippy-dippy New Age vibe Anderson gives off..but man is Anderson’s voice a wonder to hear. It’s one of those voices where you feel disappointed when he stops singing. Mike Sandler www.ampcast.com/michaelsandler

Response:

>> If you had to compare them as individual musicians, how would the > classic lineups of Deep Purple from the 70’s compare with the classic > lineups of Yes in the 1970’s? Who is the better musician in each >category?

Seems to me that they had entirely different specialties. How do you compare them? They were not rival bands. What’s the point? Herman’s Hermits outsold the Beatles worldwide one year (1966). We ought to compare them. Edward G. ‘It’s not a gang; it’s a club.’

Response:

YO! It’s JARL again….. AND – HE’S CROSSPOSTING!!! Jarl, please stick to one newsgroup for your trolling. While you’re at it, please compare the roofing tiles on my house with the sound of a 1943 Indian motorcycle. I’m sure your opinion would help me decide. — Ed Edwards Leader: Ezekiel’s Wheel

Metal Music | A comment?

WHO SUPPORTS METAL ANYWAY?

Question:

The internet is the answer. Use the internet, organize, and everyone of those bands can get themselves heard. They can amass a following, and perhaps record labels will follow suite.

Response:

I didn’t read your whole e-mail cos it’s WAY too long for most bassists’ brain capacities (hehe), but YEA METAL ROCKS!!! Don’t bands like KoRn, Mudvayne, Cradle of Filth, Metallica etc etc etc TOTALLY ROCK??? i dunno if that was even relavent to the e-mail

Response:

Korn isn’t metal. Don’t know a lot about Mudvayne, but from the song I heard on the radio, they’re not metal either. I think this is another problem with the music industry. They get an idea in their heads about what a certain musical style is, and then want only that. They think Korn is Metal, but it’s really the first generation Rapcore. There isn’t much of true metal these days on the radio, which is a shame because that’s my style of music, listening to and playing. Tony

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I didn’t read your whole e-mail cos it’s WAY too long for most bassists’ > brain capacities (hehe), but YEA METAL ROCKS!!! > Don’t bands like KoRn, Mudvayne, Cradle of Filth, Metallica etc etc etc > TOTALLY ROCK??? > i dunno if that was even relavent to the e-mail

Response:

: musical style is, and then want only that. They think Korn is Metal, but : it’s really the first generation Rapcore. There isn’t much of true metal : these days on the radio, which is a shame because that’s my style of music, : listening to and playing. Yup, I love it when "evil-teenagers" (the kind that think they are eeeevil ‘cuz they are listening to "metal" and wearing black T-shirts) say that they listen to metal and then say "Iron what? Morbid who?" when asked about Iron Maiden or Morbid Angel, for example — Javier Gonzalez Nicolini – remove the .com to e-mail "As felt on Braile Weekly"

Response:

sabbath rules, and sleep is a close second…. bang your head/metal up yer ass ___ ( ) ( ) Radapaw / ( ) The Imaginary Bass Players Union / http://www.members.home.net/radapaw/bass.htm

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The internet is the answer. Use the internet, organize, and everyone of > those bands can get themselves heard. They can amass a following, and > perhaps record labels will follow suite.

Response:

Want metal? Helloween is touring at the moment and I have tickets! This is metal in it’s purest form, if you ever heard their music. Korn have a more alternative bad ass style, you know the "I had a bad youth" type of band. It’s the same for all those new metal bands on the scene. People wanted to put the bands in too much corners, and now we don’t know what what is anymore. I think we must save true metal and let the world hear what metal means. I had a first gig with my band before x-mas, and we got complemented being said that we sound like the old metal bands. (Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden etc…) That was a great honour to hear that. I hope we do live up to that, because we made it our goal to sound like the real thing. I also agree that a lot of young bands aren’t getting the attention they need to come out of the underground. It’s a shame to lose bands who have such great potential….. **steps off soapbox** Misty. HAIL…..(Manowar) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Korn isn’t metal. Don’t know a lot about Mudvayne, but from the song I heard > on the radio, they’re not metal either. I think this is another problem with > the music industry. They get an idea in their heads about what a certain > musical style is, and then want only that. They think Korn is Metal, but > it’s really the first generation Rapcore. There isn’t much of true metal > these days on the radio, which is a shame because that’s my style of music, > listening to and playing. > Tony > I didn’t read your whole e-mail cos it’s WAY too long for most bassists’ > brain capacities (hehe), but YEA METAL ROCKS!!! > Don’t bands like KoRn, Mudvayne, Cradle of Filth, Metallica etc etc etc > TOTALLY ROCK??? > i dunno if that was even relavent to the e-mail

Response:

> Korn isn’t metal. Don’t know a lot about Mudvayne, but from the song I heard > on the radio, they’re not metal either. I think this is another problem with > the music industry. They get an idea in their heads about what a certain > musical style is, and then want only that. They think Korn is Metal, but > it’s really the first generation Rapcore. There isn’t much of true metal > these days on the radio, which is a shame because that’s my style of music, > listening to and playing.

Didn’t Jethro Tull win the "heavy metal" award (grammy or whatever) a few years back? Adam

Response:

Yup. The NARAS people decided to go with a band they knew, instead of an underground phenomenon.

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Black Sabbath…..Metallica….hmm…..Jethro Tall……good shit…..

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You have to do it for love. If its an ego thing(make it big) your dreaming. I dig most kinds of music, particularly progressive, but metal does have a place in my heart. As long its not crap thats just there seeking attention. Music is a good thing in general and should be viewed as a personal passion first and formost( Ive been down that "Icant get anywhere" road). Wow listen to me, am I ever preachy.

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Yea, metal has a place (pehaps a bit larger than others) in my heart too. Just real metal bands, and some other stuff. I wouldn’t call KoRn "Heavy Metal", but a lot of their new stuff has that sort of vibe. Thier actually quite innovative (Check out Fieldy’s bass style!!!!) and makes it a whole lot more interesting than listening to stuff like Deftones, Segression etc (not that those bands arn’t bad). Mudvayne, sure do kick copious amounts of arse too, man that bassist Ryknow iforgothislastname!!! conserdering it’s a metal band, the bass comes through quite well and as strong as any instrument (this aspect particularly rare among heavy music).

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And Ryknow can play that bass and play it well. Very fast with fingers, no pick.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Yea, metal has a place (pehaps a bit larger than others) in my heart too. > Just real metal bands, and some other stuff. > I wouldn’t call KoRn "Heavy Metal", but a lot of their new stuff has that > sort of vibe. Thier actually quite innovative (Check out Fieldy’s bass > style!!!!) and makes it a whole lot more interesting than listening to stuff > like Deftones, Segression etc (not that those bands arn’t bad). > Mudvayne, sure do kick copious amounts of arse too, man that bassist Ryknow > iforgothislastname!!! conserdering it’s a metal band, the bass comes through > quite well and as strong as any instrument (this aspect particularly rare > among heavy music).

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Definately !!!! I saw this guy Ryknow play live. He slaps, pops, slams, back hands ( : etc, etc. while playing 90 mph’s jumping around like an acrobat. Here is a link to a live video of their song 1 http://uranium.shnit.com/files/1_live.mpeg The live video for the song ‘Dig’ really shows him going off but it’s not up anymore. Be warned, it’s not the singers best performance. Visit http://www.uraniummusic.com/index2.html to get live vids.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Does anyone know much about him (Ryknow)? I just heard there album and was > real impressed with the bass. Does he slap or is he using some other method? > His tone is cool too, nice to have a good bassist pop up.

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There’s an article about Ryknow in the new Bass Player, the issue with Milt Hinton on the cover.

Response:

Does anyone know much about him (Ryknow)? I just heard there album and was real impressed with the bass. Does he slap or is he using some other method? His tone is cool too, nice to have a good bassist pop up.

Response:

hmm. f

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> WHO SUPPORTS METAL ANYWAY? > The simple fact is if it were not for the legions of metal musicians who buy > the work of other musicians signed to the metal labels metal would not be the > big business that is it. Bands seeking to play gigs and start out in their > local areas would never draw the heads into the Clubs without the other band’s > and their support people going to see them. No support means no advancement. > Yet only a fraction of the bands that do form see any kind of record deal or > mass exposure. Most remain underground. Some bands live out their entire > existence writing albums worth of material, good material that never see the > light of day out side their local areas. Lack of money is the biggest factor. > Day jobs keep you rooted at home and Bills keep you from making a Demo and > sending out the minimum 500 copies to labels. Think of all the great bands you > never heard of. As a bass player involved with a few bands I must have hundreds > of songs, some recorded some live, some recorded off sound boards and some made > at practice. Many of the songs would have been worth a label’s time in the 80’s > and early 90’s. Could even still be worth someone’s time and money now that > metal is making a come back. (Labels get in touch Just keep in mind some of > it’s live and there is no budget to professionally record them now.) What > happened to all those musicians? Where are they now? Well, most cut their hair > and got a full time job. Most are married with kids but they still buy metal. > And without them CEO’s of the labels would have to find "meaningful" work. > Maybe like me slaving at a Saw Mill and regretting I never went to collage > cause I was too busy with my music and Day job. Yes, most of us were so > dedicated, and still are we sold our souls in a way. > KILLING CREATIVITY > So what is a band to do when they are ignored by the industry? Well, they > keep trying. Not everyone knows what to do though and that is the biggest > factor. Some bands like Dying Fetus and Psychotic Waltz went a different rout > and formed their own labels and did the recording and CD pressing themselves. > This works only if you have a large following and of course money. And even at > that does not work for everyone. P. Waltz could have been the next Metallica > but they were ignored in America and only found recognition in Europe. Some > bands get indy deals with small labels and spend their entire productive life > spend writing their best music that only sees limited distro. This is the case > with a friend’s punk/ska band in San Diego, The Impossible Five. I use my > friends band as an example but the same thing happens with metal bands all the > time. Infamous Symphony would be a good example of a metal band that had this > problem. This is the U.S. Industries loss pure and simple. Sometimes it works > out as with another punk band from my home town Unwritten Law. They were picked > up by capital before they expended the best of themselves on an indy label but > this is the exception not the rule. > For the vast majority of bands their life cycle is spent trying to gain the > attention of the labels and 99% of the time they never do. Who loses in this > deal is the fans. More so the fans who only listen and do not play. Who else? > The labels. Relapse just put out a CD called "Polish Assault" a compilation of > Polish bands. My question is why has not any CEO’s at the major and minor > labels considered putting out a compilation of all the un signed bands worth > mention in any given American City? As example "San Diego Metal Assault"?? > Better hurry though as there are only a hand full of San Diego Metal bands > left. Other Cities should be included too. This would get the band’s some > recognition, makes money for the labels and less metal would be thrown upon the > scrap heap of metal history. The un written metal history that is. > RECYCLING MUSICIANS > The biggest problem with the Metal Music industry is the recycling of it’s > acts. How many band’s break up and you see 3 bands from one? Many times this > happens. In a sane world those new bands would face the same difficulties as > does a bunch of no body’s but this is not the case. It’s who you know. Yet you > could take the same band and subtract the star of the act and the label would > not think twice to sign them to a deal. Why is this? Well I don’t have the > answer but I do have the observations. Recent examples; Ex obituary ax man > Trevor Perez and his new band Catastrophic. When I first saw the adds I though > "Cool a ‘new’ band. Then I find out it’s yet another contract handed to another > band on a silver platter. Sure obituary paid it’s dues but the fact that one > member was in a band before does not prove they will sell the albums. They will > sell some amount sure but a recycled product is still not exactly new. Then > there is ex front man of Defiance Steev Esquivel who formed Skinlab. No doubt > another deal on a silver platter affair. I am going to check Skinlab out though > but only because I loved Defiance and am getting the CD free from BMG music. > How many times has a band been told the label is not interested in them because > they sound like someone else? Lack originality? Yet how far removed are the > offspring bands of metal acts like Catastrophic from Obituary? Not too far > removed I am sure. > I know Joel Metoza of Shock head. Same deal. He was formally with 24/7 Spys > and they broke up so he put together a band called Shock Head and got a deal > rather quickly. Yet his former band, I forget the name did not get a deal cause > he had not yet been in 24/7 Spys. And they were damn good. This is how the > industry works most the time. I was in a band Called Espionage once and we had > a guy named Bob Linstrom join who was in an 80’s metal band called Steel > Vengeance signed to Black Dragon Records. (Label mates of Manilla Road) We did > our Demo and sent it to the label and never heard back. We sold the 100 tapes > but should have sent them all to labels and paid for more but hey we were young > and dumb. Bob left the band to move back home to be with his daughter and we > went on for 3 more years. Our lead player was brought into Shock head when we > called it quits only he was kicked out before they cut a CD as he had a > drinking problem. > For many bands being a former member of a band with a deal works and the worst > abomination to hard working musicians who never see a deal is the bands that > form side project bands and hog the limelight. How many new bands would get a > deal if those established bands would not form so many side projects. Who wants > to listen to them anyway? I sure don’t care to hear a band rehashed 10 > different ways do you? And as I said before who pays these people? The Same > Musicians who are locked out of advancement and the general metal fan > population that’s who. And this is where the real crime is found. > IS THIS FAIR? > Well, it’s the real world. And who cares as long as were making money right? > As a metal head do you want to hear the cutting edge bands? I sure do. Recycled > goods are second rate yet we pay top dollar for their CD’s and it’s cause we > don’t know any better. Sure underground bands can be had on the net for simple > cash but their production almost always sucks. So we stick with the Recycled > bands. Well I try not to. I buy Iron Maiden CD’s but I leave Bruce Dickinson > alone. Now will I ever buy a CD by Soul Fly. In fact until Max gets back into > Sepultura I can care less to buy their music either. In the end it’s the market > shut out of new acts that allows bands to recycle themselves. And the fact that > YOU keep buying. What the metal masses need to do is use your buying power and > just say no to the revolving Door of recycled bands and Don’t buy it. What > label executives need to do is take a look at compilations CD’s with the acts > by Cities. And issue them. > Take Exhumed. One of their members is in one or two other projects and if I > recall right Exhumed is not even the main project of the guys who are in it. So > why would you want to support something they do not even take serious enough to > dedicate all their time to? If they do not believe in their own band why should > you? They are just out to make a buck and you give it to them and in the > process screw your self outta hearing new bands. Real bands that deserve a > break. > Think about this and thanks checking out real life in the real underground. > MIKE > Permission to re post, reproduce and publish so long as no text is left out. > Please FWD this to industry people and friends everywhere.

Response:

WHO SUPPORTS METAL ANYWAY? The simple fact is if it were not for the legions of metal musicians who buy the work of other musicians signed to the metal labels metal would not be the big business that is it. Bands seeking to play gigs and start out in their local areas would never draw the heads into the Clubs without the other band’s and their support people going to see them. No support means no advancement. Yet only a fraction of the bands that do form see any kind of record deal or mass exposure. Most remain underground. Some bands live out their entire existence writing albums worth of material, good material that never see the light of day out side their local areas. Lack of money is the biggest factor. Day jobs keep you rooted at home and Bills keep you from making a Demo and sending out the minimum 500 copies to labels. Think of all the great bands you never heard of. As a bass player involved with a few bands I must have hundreds of songs, some recorded some live, some recorded off sound boards and some made at practice. Many of the songs would have been worth a label’s time in the 80’s and early 90’s. Could even still be worth someone’s time and money now that metal is making a come back. (Labels get in touch Just keep in mind some of it’s live and there is no budget to professionally record them now.) What happened to all those musicians? Where are they now? Well, most cut their hair and got a full time job. Most are married with kids but they still buy metal. And without them CEO’s of the labels would have to find "meaningful" work. Maybe like me slaving at a Saw Mill and regretting I never went to collage cause I was too busy with my music and Day job. Yes, most of us were so dedicated, and still are we sold our souls in a way. KILLING CREATIVITY So what is a band to do when they are ignored by the industry? Well, they keep trying. Not everyone knows what to do though and that is the biggest factor. Some bands like Dying Fetus and Psychotic Waltz went a different rout and formed their own labels and did the recording and CD pressing themselves. This works only if you have a large following and of course money. And even at that does not work for everyone. P. Waltz could have been the next Metallica but they were ignored in America and only found recognition in Europe. Some bands get indy deals with small labels and spend their entire productive life spend writing their best music that only sees limited distro. This is the case with a friend’s punk/ska band in San Diego, The Impossible Five. I use my friends band as an example but the same thing happens with metal bands all the time. Infamous Symphony would be a good example of a metal band that had this problem. This is the U.S. Industries loss pure and simple. Sometimes it works out as with another punk band from my home town Unwritten Law. They were picked up by capital before they expended the best of themselves on an indy label but this is the exception not the rule. For the vast majority of bands their life cycle is spent trying to gain the attention of the labels and 99% of the time they never do. Who loses in this deal is the fans. More so the fans who only listen and do not play. Who else? The labels. Relapse just put out a CD called "Polish Assault" a compilation of Polish bands. My question is why has not any CEO’s at the major and minor labels considered putting out a compilation of all the un signed bands worth mention in any given American City? As example "San Diego Metal Assault"?? Better hurry though as there are only a hand full of San Diego Metal bands left. Other Cities should be included too. This would get the band’s some recognition, makes money for the labels and less metal would be thrown upon the scrap heap of metal history. The un written metal history that is. RECYCLING MUSICIANS The biggest problem with the Metal Music industry is the recycling of it’s acts. How many band’s break up and you see 3 bands from one? Many times this happens. In a sane world those new bands would face the same difficulties as does a bunch of no body’s but this is not the case. It’s who you know. Yet you could take the same band and subtract the star of the act and the label would not think twice to sign them to a deal. Why is this? Well I don’t have the answer but I do have the observations. Recent examples; Ex obituary ax man Trevor Perez and his new band Catastrophic. When I first saw the adds I though "Cool a ‘new’ band. Then I find out it’s yet another contract handed to another band on a silver platter. Sure obituary paid it’s dues but the fact that one member was in a band before does not prove they will sell the albums. They will sell some amount sure but a recycled product is still not exactly new. Then there is ex front man of Defiance Steev Esquivel who formed Skinlab. No doubt another deal on a silver platter affair. I am going to check Skinlab out though but only because I loved Defiance and am getting the CD free from BMG music. How many times has a band been told the label is not interested in them because they sound like someone else? Lack originality? Yet how far removed are the offspring bands of metal acts like Catastrophic from Obituary? Not too far removed I am sure. I know Joel Metoza of Shock head. Same deal. He was formally with 24/7 Spys and they broke up so he put together a band called Shock Head and got a deal rather quickly. Yet his former band, I forget the name did not get a deal cause he had not yet been in 24/7 Spys. And they were damn good. This is how the industry works most the time. I was in a band Called Espionage once and we had a guy named Bob Linstrom join who was in an 80’s metal band called Steel Vengeance signed to Black Dragon Records. (Label mates of Manilla Road) We did our Demo and sent it to the label and never heard back. We sold the 100 tapes but should have sent them all to labels and paid for more but hey we were young and dumb. Bob left the band to move back home to be with his daughter and we went on for 3 more years. Our lead player was brought into Shock head when we called it quits only he was kicked out before they cut a CD as he had a drinking problem. For many bands being a former member of a band with a deal works and the worst abomination to hard working musicians who never see a deal is the bands that form side project bands and hog the limelight. How many new bands would get a deal if those established bands would not form so many side projects. Who wants to listen to them anyway? I sure don’t care to hear a band rehashed 10 different ways do you? And as I said before who pays these people? The Same Musicians who are locked out of advancement and the general metal fan population that’s who. And this is where the real crime is found. IS THIS FAIR? Well, it’s the real world. And who cares as long as were making money right? As a metal head do you want to hear the cutting edge bands? I sure do. Recycled goods are second rate yet we pay top dollar for their CD’s and it’s cause we don’t know any better. Sure underground bands can be had on the net for simple cash but their production almost always sucks. So we stick with the Recycled bands. Well I try not to. I buy Iron Maiden CD’s but I leave Bruce Dickinson alone. Now will I ever buy a CD by Soul Fly. In fact until Max gets back into Sepultura I can care less to buy their music either. In the end it’s the market shut out of new acts that allows bands to recycle themselves. And the fact that YOU keep buying. What the metal masses need to do is use your buying power and just say no to the revolving Door of recycled bands and Don’t buy it. What label executives need to do is take a look at compilations CD’s with the acts by Cities. And issue them. Take Exhumed. One of their members is in one or two other projects and if I recall right Exhumed is not even the main project of the guys who are in it. So why would you want to support something they do not even take serious enough to dedicate all their time to? If they do not believe in their own band why should you? They are just out to make a buck and you give it to them and in the process screw your self outta hearing new bands. Real bands that deserve a break. Think about this and thanks checking out real life in the real underground. MIKE Permission to re post, reproduce and publish so long as no text is left out. Please FWD this to industry people and friends everywhere.

Response:

Metal Music | A comment?

Distinct lack of balls from Eden 2×10

Question:

Hmmmm…..possibly the problem could the Carvin? I’ve never seen/used Carvin gear being in Canada and all….I’m not local to any U.S. Music Ditributor.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In the ‘lack of balls’ department, I saw a bass player last night who trotted > out a bass as large as a refrigerator –Carvin Pro Bass 500 and two large Trace > Elliot cabs. His tone was downright puny. I guarantee you it was pilot error, > because that rig should nearly shake the foundation. It’s so important to > shape your sound well. This cat just didn’t understand. > edvaard

Response:

I meant ‘bass rig.’ edvaard

Response:

Yeah… that could be why… I’ll see if I can use a more powerful amp next time. Cheers.

> Yes, not a rock amp…..300watt’s is useless for what I play. > Well, I was using a 300 watt eden head…. > > Hey Ja7on! > > I just finished playing with jammin’ for the night, I ran about 450watts > > through my Eden D-210XLT with my brand new Trace

pre-amp…..WWWOOOWWW! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > It was beautiful! Maybe your amp doesn’t have good bass handling cause > my > > ohms….but I wasn’t going to push it….I was running clean power > > too…again…..I want to get a bigger cabinet….and run at 850watts > RMS. > > into an 8X10" > > Later man, > > Chris > > > Oh, totally! I play on a Yamaha, so I grabbed that model to test it > out > > > > > Okay, good stuff have fun! > > > > Remember to try gear on a gig before you buy it…..if the music > store > > > won’t > > > > let you do it…..are they really the store you want to buy from? > > > > Don’t buy equipment off of someone else’s opinion, unless you have > had > > > first > > > > hand experience. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Chris > > > > > > Is it the BassMaster 400 from Yorkville? Yes….a very good > > > amp…cheap > > > > > and > > > > > > simple. > > > > > No, it’s the 200RB, but I think it’s the predecessor to the Bass > > Master, > > > > as > > > > > they don’t sell the RBs anymore. It’s got no tweeter and only has > 150 > > > > watts > > > > > going through the speaker, but it’s as loud as stink. A little too > > loose > > > > at > > > > > times, but I usually deal with it. > > > > > > Tell you what your problem is….. > > > > > > Your comparing a 15" to a 2X10"…..simple…..15"s are made to > > > > "project" > > > > > > sound at a greater distance than the 2X10’s….but Eden helps > them > > out > > > > by > > > > > > adding dual ports.. > > > > > I usually play about 3 or 4 feet in front of my amp tho, and that > was > > > the > > > > > distance I was at when listening to the Eden rig. > > > > > > Obviously, your a rock kinda guy like myself…..I own an Eden > > > D-210XLT > > > > > and > > > > > > Peavey 115BX Black Widow….together they are great….. > > > > > > You can hear the Tens when closer to the rig and the 15" is > heard > at > > a > > > > > > greater distance away….helps the drummer out sometimes when > > intence > > > > > guitar > > > > > > is being played. > > > > > I think this might be the way I’m gonna go. I actually play funk, > but > > I > > > > like > > > > > a nice roundish tone with low end to spare. > > > > > > I’m planning on switching to an 8X10 Ampeg cab because I’d > rather > > hear > > > > > > myself play when I’m closer to my rig, the guitarist I have has > no > > > > > problems > > > > > > at all hearing me. > > > > > > This is my own opinion, with help from some others on this > group. > > > > > > Good Luck, > > > > > > Chris > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > I was in the music store the other day with some time to > kill, > > > so > > > > I > > > > > > > thought I’d try an Eden setup. It consisted of a WT-300 into a > > > 210XLT. > > > > I > > > > > > > grabbed a low-end yamaha and tried it out on it, settings flat > in > > > the > > > > > EQ, > > > > > > > 1/2 way on both gain and master, and I noticed a distinct lack > of > > > > > > > chest-pumping low end there. I thought hmm, maybe it’s the > bass, > > so > > > I > > > > > > > grabbed a Warwick FNA and plugged it in. Better, but still > lacking > > > > > > compared > > > > > > > to my Yorkville 15" combo in the low end… anyone else find > this? > > > > I’ve > > > > > > > always heard Eden makes good stuff, and heard and used some > eden > > > heads > > > > > > > powering other cabs that I liked, but this one just > dissapointed > > > me… > > > > > > maybe > > > > > > > I’m used to 15 inches…. > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > Jason

Response:

In the ‘lack of balls’ department, I saw a bass player last night who trotted out a bass as large as a refrigerator –Carvin Pro Bass 500 and two large Trace Elliot cabs. His tone was downright puny. I guarantee you it was pilot error, because that rig should nearly shake the foundation. It’s so important to shape your sound well. This cat just didn’t understand. edvaard

Response:

Yes, not a rock amp…..300watt’s is useless for what I play.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Well, I was using a 300 watt eden head…. > Hey Ja7on! > I just finished playing with jammin’ for the night, I ran about 450watts > through my Eden D-210XLT with my brand new Trace pre-amp…..WWWOOOWWW! > It was beautiful! Maybe your amp doesn’t have good bass handling cause my > ohms….but I wasn’t going to push it….I was running clean power > too…again…..I want to get a bigger cabinet….and run at 850watts RMS. > into an 8X10" > Later man, > Chris > > Oh, totally! I play on a Yamaha, so I grabbed that model to test it out > > > > Okay, good stuff have fun! > > > Remember to try gear on a gig before you buy it…..if the music store > > won’t > > > let you do it…..are they really the store you want to buy from? > > > Don’t buy equipment off of someone else’s opinion, unless you have had > > first > > > hand experience. > > > Cheers, > > > Chris > > > > > Is it the BassMaster 400 from Yorkville? Yes….a very good > > amp…cheap > > > > and > > > > > simple. > > > > No, it’s the 200RB, but I think it’s the predecessor to the Bass > Master, > > > as > > > > they don’t sell the RBs anymore. It’s got no tweeter and only has > 150 > > > watts > > > > going through the speaker, but it’s as loud as stink. A little too > loose > > > at > > > > times, but I usually deal with it. > > > > > Tell you what your problem is….. > > > > > Your comparing a 15" to a 2X10"…..simple…..15"s are made to > > > "project" > > > > > sound at a greater distance than the 2X10’s….but Eden helps them > out > > > by > > > > > adding dual ports.. > > > > I usually play about 3 or 4 feet in front of my amp tho, and that > was > > the > > > > distance I was at when listening to the Eden rig. > > > > > Obviously, your a rock kinda guy like myself…..I own an Eden > > D-210XLT > > > > and > > > > > Peavey 115BX Black Widow….together they are great….. > > > > > You can hear the Tens when closer to the rig and the 15" is heard > at > a > > > > > greater distance away….helps the drummer out sometimes when > intence > > > > guitar > > > > > is being played. > > > > I think this might be the way I’m gonna go. I actually play funk, > but > I > > > like > > > > a nice roundish tone with low end to spare. > > > > > I’m planning on switching to an 8X10 Ampeg cab because I’d rather > hear > > > > > myself play when I’m closer to my rig, the guitarist I have has no > > > > problems > > > > > at all hearing me. > > > > > This is my own opinion, with help from some others on this group. > > > > > Good Luck, > > > > > Chris > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > I was in the music store the other day with some time to > kill, > > so > > > I > > > > > > thought I’d try an Eden setup. It consisted of a WT-300 into a > > 210XLT. > > > I > > > > > > grabbed a low-end yamaha and tried it out on it, settings flat > in > > the > > > > EQ, > > > > > > 1/2 way on both gain and master, and I noticed a distinct lack > of > > > > > > chest-pumping low end there. I thought hmm, maybe it’s the bass, > so > > I > > > > > > grabbed a Warwick FNA and plugged it in. Better, but still > lacking > > > > > compared > > > > > > to my Yorkville 15" combo in the low end… anyone else find > this? > > > I’ve > > > > > > always heard Eden makes good stuff, and heard and used some eden > > heads > > > > > > powering other cabs that I liked, but this one just dissapointed > > me… > > > > > maybe > > > > > > I’m used to 15 inches…. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Jason

Response:

Well, I was using a 300 watt eden head….

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hey Ja7on! > I just finished playing with jammin’ for the night, I ran about 450watts > through my Eden D-210XLT with my brand new Trace pre-amp…..WWWOOOWWW! > It was beautiful! Maybe your amp doesn’t have good bass handling cause my > ohms….but I wasn’t going to push it….I was running clean power > too…again…..I want to get a bigger cabinet….and run at 850watts RMS. > into an 8X10" > Later man, > Chris > Oh, totally! I play on a Yamaha, so I grabbed that model to test it out > > Okay, good stuff have fun! > > Remember to try gear on a gig before you buy it…..if the music store > won’t > > let you do it…..are they really the store you want to buy from? > > Don’t buy equipment off of someone else’s opinion, unless you have had > first > > hand experience. > > Cheers, > > Chris > > > > Is it the BassMaster 400 from Yorkville? Yes….a very good > amp…cheap > > > and > > > > simple. > > > No, it’s the 200RB, but I think it’s the predecessor to the Bass > Master, > > as > > > they don’t sell the RBs anymore. It’s got no tweeter and only has 150 > > watts > > > going through the speaker, but it’s as loud as stink. A little too > loose > > at > > > times, but I usually deal with it. > > > > Tell you what your problem is….. > > > > Your comparing a 15" to a 2X10"…..simple…..15"s are made to > > "project" > > > > sound at a greater distance than the 2X10’s….but Eden helps them > out > > by > > > > adding dual ports.. > > > I usually play about 3 or 4 feet in front of my amp tho, and that was > the > > > distance I was at when listening to the Eden rig. > > > > Obviously, your a rock kinda guy like myself…..I own an Eden > D-210XLT > > > and > > > > Peavey 115BX Black Widow….together they are great….. > > > > You can hear the Tens when closer to the rig and the 15" is heard at > a > > > > greater distance away….helps the drummer out sometimes when > intence > > > guitar > > > > is being played. > > > I think this might be the way I’m gonna go. I actually play funk, but > I > > like > > > a nice roundish tone with low end to spare. > > > > I’m planning on switching to an 8X10 Ampeg cab because I’d rather > hear > > > > myself play when I’m closer to my rig, the guitarist I have has no > > > problems > > > > at all hearing me. > > > > This is my own opinion, with help from some others on this group. > > > > Good Luck, > > > > Chris > > > > > Hello, > > > > > I was in the music store the other day with some time to kill, > so > > I > > > > > thought I’d try an Eden setup. It consisted of a WT-300 into a > 210XLT. > > I > > > > > grabbed a low-end yamaha and tried it out on it, settings flat in > the > > > EQ, > > > > > 1/2 way on both gain and master, and I noticed a distinct lack of > > > > > chest-pumping low end there. I thought hmm, maybe it’s the bass, > so > I > > > > > grabbed a Warwick FNA and plugged it in. Better, but still lacking > > > > compared > > > > > to my Yorkville 15" combo in the low end… anyone else find this? > > I’ve > > > > > always heard Eden makes good stuff, and heard and used some eden > heads > > > > > powering other cabs that I liked, but this one just dissapointed > me… > > > > maybe > > > > > I’m used to 15 inches…. > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > Jason

Response:

Hey Ja7on! I just finished playing with jammin’ for the night, I ran about 450watts through my Eden D-210XLT with my brand new Trace pre-amp…..WWWOOOWWW! It was beautiful! Maybe your amp doesn’t have good bass handling cause my ohms….but I wasn’t going to push it….I was running clean power too…again…..I want to get a bigger cabinet….and run at 850watts RMS. into an 8X10" Later man, Chris

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Oh, totally! I play on a Yamaha, so I grabbed that model to test it out > Okay, good stuff have fun! > Remember to try gear on a gig before you buy it…..if the music store > won’t > let you do it…..are they really the store you want to buy from? > Don’t buy equipment off of someone else’s opinion, unless you have had > first > hand experience. > Cheers, > Chris > > > Is it the BassMaster 400 from Yorkville? Yes….a very good > amp…cheap > > and > > > simple. > > No, it’s the 200RB, but I think it’s the predecessor to the Bass Master, > as > > they don’t sell the RBs anymore. It’s got no tweeter and only has 150 > watts > > going through the speaker, but it’s as loud as stink. A little too loose > at > > times, but I usually deal with it. > > > Tell you what your problem is….. > > > Your comparing a 15" to a 2X10"…..simple…..15"s are made to > "project" > > > sound at a greater distance than the 2X10’s….but Eden helps them out > by > > > adding dual ports.. > > I usually play about 3 or 4 feet in front of my amp tho, and that was > the > > distance I was at when listening to the Eden rig. > > > Obviously, your a rock kinda guy like myself…..I own an Eden > D-210XLT > > and > > > Peavey 115BX Black Widow….together they are great….. > > > You can hear the Tens when closer to the rig and the 15" is heard at a > > > greater distance away….helps the drummer out sometimes when intence > > guitar > > > is being played. > > I think this might be the way I’m gonna go. I actually play funk, but I > like > > a nice roundish tone with low end to spare. > > > I’m planning on switching to an 8X10 Ampeg cab because I’d rather hear > > > myself play when I’m closer to my rig, the guitarist I have has no > > problems > > > at all hearing me. > > > This is my own opinion, with help from some others on this group. > > > Good Luck, > > > Chris > > > > Hello, > > > > I was in the music store the other day with some time to kill, > so > I > > > > thought I’d try an Eden setup. It consisted of a WT-300 into a > 210XLT. > I > > > > grabbed a low-end yamaha and tried it out on it, settings flat in > the > > EQ, > > > > 1/2 way on both gain and master, and I noticed a distinct lack of > > > > chest-pumping low end there. I thought hmm, maybe it’s the bass, so > I > > > > grabbed a Warwick FNA and plugged it in. Better, but still lacking > > > compared > > > > to my Yorkville 15" combo in the low end… anyone else find this? > I’ve > > > > always heard Eden makes good stuff, and heard and used some eden > heads > > > > powering other cabs that I liked, but this one just dissapointed > me… > > > maybe > > > > I’m used to 15 inches…. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Jason

Response:

Oh, totally! I play on a Yamaha, so I grabbed that model to test it out

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Okay, good stuff have fun! > Remember to try gear on a gig before you buy it…..if the music store won’t > let you do it…..are they really the store you want to buy from? > Don’t buy equipment off of someone else’s opinion, unless you have had first > hand experience. > Cheers, > Chris > > Is it the BassMaster 400 from Yorkville? Yes….a very good amp…cheap > and > > simple. > No, it’s the 200RB, but I think it’s the predecessor to the Bass Master, > as > they don’t sell the RBs anymore. It’s got no tweeter and only has 150 > watts > going through the speaker, but it’s as loud as stink. A little too loose > at > times, but I usually deal with it. > > Tell you what your problem is….. > > Your comparing a 15" to a 2X10"…..simple…..15"s are made to > "project" > > sound at a greater distance than the 2X10’s….but Eden helps them out > by > > adding dual ports.. > I usually play about 3 or 4 feet in front of my amp tho, and that was the > distance I was at when listening to the Eden rig. > > Obviously, your a rock kinda guy like myself…..I own an Eden D-210XLT > and > > Peavey 115BX Black Widow….together they are great….. > > You can hear the Tens when closer to the rig and the 15" is heard at a > > greater distance away….helps the drummer out sometimes when intence > guitar > > is being played. > I think this might be the way I’m gonna go. I actually play funk, but I > like > a nice roundish tone with low end to spare. > > I’m planning on switching to an 8X10 Ampeg cab because I’d rather hear > > myself play when I’m closer to my rig, the guitarist I have has no > problems > > at all hearing me. > > This is my own opinion, with help from some others on this group. > > Good Luck, > > Chris > > > Hello, > > > I was in the music store the other day with some time to kill, so > I > > > thought I’d try an Eden setup. It consisted of a WT-300 into a 210XLT. > I > > > grabbed a low-end yamaha and tried it out on it, settings flat in the > EQ, > > > 1/2 way on both gain and master, and I noticed a distinct lack of > > > chest-pumping low end there. I thought hmm, maybe it’s the bass, so I > > > grabbed a Warwick FNA and plugged it in. Better, but still lacking > > compared > > > to my Yorkville 15" combo in the low end… anyone else find this? > I’ve > > > always heard Eden makes good stuff, and heard and used some eden heads > > > powering other cabs that I liked, but this one just dissapointed me… > > maybe > > > I’m used to 15 inches…. > > > Cheers, > > > Jason

Response:

Okay, good stuff have fun! Remember to try gear on a gig before you buy it…..if the music store won’t let you do it…..are they really the store you want to buy from? Don’t buy equipment off of someone else’s opinion, unless you have had first hand experience. Cheers, Chris

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Is it the BassMaster 400 from Yorkville? Yes….a very good amp…cheap > and > simple. > No, it’s the 200RB, but I think it’s the predecessor to the Bass Master, as > they don’t sell the RBs anymore. It’s got no tweeter and only has 150 watts > going through the speaker, but it’s as loud as stink. A little too loose at > times, but I usually deal with it. > Tell you what your problem is….. > Your comparing a 15" to a 2X10"…..simple…..15"s are made to "project" > sound at a greater distance than the 2X10’s….but Eden helps them out by > adding dual ports.. > I usually play about 3 or 4 feet in front of my amp tho, and that was the > distance I was at when listening to the Eden rig. > Obviously, your a rock kinda guy like myself…..I own an Eden D-210XLT > and > Peavey 115BX Black Widow….together they are great….. > You can hear the Tens when closer to the rig and the 15" is heard at a > greater distance away….helps the drummer out sometimes when intence > guitar > is being played. > I think this might be the way I’m gonna go. I actually play funk, but I like > a nice roundish tone with low end to spare. > I’m planning on switching to an 8X10 Ampeg cab because I’d rather hear > myself play when I’m closer to my rig, the guitarist I have has no > problems > at all hearing me. > This is my own opinion, with help from some others on this group. > Good Luck, > Chris > > Hello, > > I was in the music store the other day with some time to kill, so I > > thought I’d try an Eden setup. It consisted of a WT-300 into a 210XLT. I > > grabbed a low-end yamaha and tried it out on it, settings flat in the > EQ, > > 1/2 way on both gain and master, and I noticed a distinct lack of > > chest-pumping low end there. I thought hmm, maybe it’s the bass, so I > > grabbed a Warwick FNA and plugged it in. Better, but still lacking > compared > > to my Yorkville 15" combo in the low end… anyone else find this? I’ve > > always heard Eden makes good stuff, and heard and used some eden heads > > powering other cabs that I liked, but this one just dissapointed me… > maybe > > I’m used to 15 inches…. > > Cheers, > > Jason

Response:

> Hmm…..I’ve never had a problem with a lack of balls with my Eden > 2X10.I’m running the Eden with an Ampeg SVT-3 Pro amp.In fact the > sound is ballsy as hell.A real fat tone.More than most 4X10’s that > I’ve owned or used. > I’m guessing that maybe you need to boost the bass EQ on the amp more > to get more balls from the Eden 2X10.

Yeah, the low end wasn’t hugely missing, just not chesty, you know? > Volume can be a bit of an issue with the Eden 2X10 though.As it’s fine > for most applications and music styles by itself.For rock and metal > music the 2X10 will run out of steam though,it’s simply not enough.If > the guitar player or players are running Marshall 4X12’s you will need > to add another 4X10 or 115.

This was a quiet music store where I tried this… until I asked "how loud does this sucker go?" then it was a bit not queiter – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Scott >Hello, > I was in the music store the other day with some time to kill, so I >thought I’d try an Eden setup. It consisted of a WT-300 into a 210XLT. I >grabbed a low-end yamaha and tried it out on it, settings flat in the EQ, >1/2 way on both gain and master, and I noticed a distinct lack of >chest-pumping low end there. I thought hmm, maybe it’s the bass, so I >grabbed a Warwick FNA and plugged it in. Better, but still lacking compared >to my Yorkville 15" combo in the low end… anyone else find this? I’ve >always heard Eden makes good stuff, and heard and used some eden heads >powering other cabs that I liked, but this one just dissapointed me… maybe >I’m used to 15 inches…. >Cheers, >Jason

Response:

> Is it the BassMaster 400 from Yorkville? Yes….a very good amp…cheap and > simple.

No, it’s the 200RB, but I think it’s the predecessor to the Bass Master, as they don’t sell the RBs anymore. It’s got no tweeter and only has 150 watts going through the speaker, but it’s as loud as stink. A little too loose at times, but I usually deal with it. > Tell you what your problem is….. > Your comparing a 15" to a 2X10"…..simple…..15"s are made to "project" > sound at a greater distance than the 2X10’s….but Eden helps them out by > adding dual ports..

I usually play about 3 or 4 feet in front of my amp tho, and that was the distance I was at when listening to the Eden rig. > Obviously, your a rock kinda guy like myself…..I own an Eden D-210XLT and > Peavey 115BX Black Widow….together they are great….. > You can hear the Tens when closer to the rig and the 15" is heard at a > greater distance away….helps the drummer out sometimes when intence guitar > is being played.

I think this might be the way I’m gonna go. I actually play funk, but I like a nice roundish tone with low end to spare. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m planning on switching to an 8X10 Ampeg cab because I’d rather hear > myself play when I’m closer to my rig, the guitarist I have has no problems > at all hearing me. > This is my own opinion, with help from some others on this group. > Good Luck, > Chris > Hello, > I was in the music store the other day with some time to kill, so I > thought I’d try an Eden setup. It consisted of a WT-300 into a 210XLT. I > grabbed a low-end yamaha and tried it out on it, settings flat in the EQ, > 1/2 way on both gain and master, and I noticed a distinct lack of > chest-pumping low end there. I thought hmm, maybe it’s the bass, so I > grabbed a Warwick FNA and plugged it in. Better, but still lacking > compared > to my Yorkville 15" combo in the low end… anyone else find this? I’ve > always heard Eden makes good stuff, and heard and used some eden heads > powering other cabs that I liked, but this one just dissapointed me… > maybe > I’m used to 15 inches…. > Cheers, > Jason

Response:

Is it the BassMaster 400 from Yorkville? Yes….a very good amp…cheap and simple. Tell you what your problem is….. Your comparing a 15" to a 2X10"…..simple…..15"s are made to "project" sound at a greater distance than the 2X10’s….but Eden helps them out by adding dual ports.. Obviously, your a rock kinda guy like myself…..I own an Eden D-210XLT and Peavey 115BX Black Widow….together they are great….. You can hear the Tens when closer to the rig and the 15" is heard at a greater distance away….helps the drummer out sometimes when intence guitar is being played. I’m planning on switching to an 8X10 Ampeg cab because I’d rather hear myself play when I’m closer to my rig, the guitarist I have has no problems at all hearing me. This is my own opinion, with help from some others on this group. Good Luck, Chris

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello, > I was in the music store the other day with some time to kill, so I > thought I’d try an Eden setup. It consisted of a WT-300 into a 210XLT. I > grabbed a low-end yamaha and tried it out on it, settings flat in the EQ, > 1/2 way on both gain and master, and I noticed a distinct lack of > chest-pumping low end there. I thought hmm, maybe it’s the bass, so I > grabbed a Warwick FNA and plugged it in. Better, but still lacking compared > to my Yorkville 15" combo in the low end… anyone else find this? I’ve > always heard Eden makes good stuff, and heard and used some eden heads > powering other cabs that I liked, but this one just dissapointed me… maybe > I’m used to 15 inches…. > Cheers, > Jason

Response:

Hello, I was in the music store the other day with some time to kill, so I thought I’d try an Eden setup. It consisted of a WT-300 into a 210XLT. I grabbed a low-end yamaha and tried it out on it, settings flat in the EQ, 1/2 way on both gain and master, and I noticed a distinct lack of chest-pumping low end there. I thought hmm, maybe it’s the bass, so I grabbed a Warwick FNA and plugged it in. Better, but still lacking compared to my Yorkville 15" combo in the low end… anyone else find this? I’ve always heard Eden makes good stuff, and heard and used some eden heads powering other cabs that I liked, but this one just dissapointed me… maybe I’m used to 15 inches…. Cheers, Jason

Response:

Hmm…..I’ve never had a problem with a lack of balls with my Eden 2X10.I’m running the Eden with an Ampeg SVT-3 Pro amp.In fact the sound is ballsy as hell.A real fat tone.More than most 4X10’s that I’ve owned or used. I’m guessing that maybe you need to boost the bass EQ on the amp more to get more balls from the Eden 2X10. Volume can be a bit of an issue with the Eden 2X10 though.As it’s fine for most applications and music styles by itself.For rock and metal music the 2X10 will run out of steam though,it’s simply not enough.If the guitar player or players are running Marshall 4X12’s you will need to add another 4X10 or 115. Scott – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Hello, > I was in the music store the other day with some time to kill, so I >thought I’d try an Eden setup. It consisted of a WT-300 into a 210XLT. I >grabbed a low-end yamaha and tried it out on it, settings flat in the EQ, >1/2 way on both gain and master, and I noticed a distinct lack of >chest-pumping low end there. I thought hmm, maybe it’s the bass, so I >grabbed a Warwick FNA and plugged it in. Better, but still lacking compared >to my Yorkville 15" combo in the low end… anyone else find this? I’ve >always heard Eden makes good stuff, and heard and used some eden heads >powering other cabs that I liked, but this one just dissapointed me… maybe >I’m used to 15 inches…. >Cheers, >Jason

Response:

Metal Music | A comment?

pictures of abstrac paintings made by ozzy?

Question:

hi,i know that ozzy likes painting to relax,but someone have .jpg or .gif archives of ozzy

Metal Music | A comment?