Question:
>I think the current foot and mouth crisis here in the UK may help to cause >society to re-examine the entire meat question. I love red meat, but eat it >only on rare ocassions. A few weeks ago, my brother and I flew to New >York just to eat at Peter Lugers and Churasscuria Plataforma. Now that’s >out of my system, I probably won’t eat red meat for months.
I may have you beat. Every couple of months, on average, I have a nice French-toast-and-bacon breakfast. Other than that, I eat no meat, red or otherwise. No fish, no chicken, no deli meats, no other kinds of eggs, no nuthin. And I’m not a vegetarian, I just don’t like the stuff. >The doctor you mention may well have hit the nail on the head…
As I said, I don’t think so. She’s ignoring the fact that ancient people ate diets just as varied as we do now. Way up north, there weren’t a whole lot of edible vegetables, so people spent lots of time hunting. In the tropics, diet was geared far more towards fruit, which was plentiful and tends not to fight back. So, the doctor saying that our omega-3-to-6 balance is all off because the junk we feed our cattle gives them different EFA levels than wild game had way back when is oversimplifying the whole picture, just like many of the other "paleolithic diet" books and proponents around. >…my diet must have been totally deficient in O3 and O6.
I doubt that *very* much, unless you avoided all fatty dairy, and vegetable fats, as well as the meats. Had you not taken in any EFAs for a good long while, you most likely would have exhibited other symptoms besides psoriasis and/or pyodermas, dehydration probably being high on the list due to a breakdown of the skin’s barrier function. Neurological symptoms, too. Reports of EFA deficiency are very rare for adults. Infants appear to be less able to synthesize certain EFAs from others, and don’t have large stores of them, to boot, so tend to be more susceptible to EFA malnutrition. Reports of low EFA levels causing disease in older children and adults tend to be about people who are either being fed special diets (for some other disease), which are either completely lacking in EFAs (one gentleman was being tube-fed a zero-fat diet to treat severe triglyceride levels, and those treating him thought that rubbing vegetable oils on his skin would give him enough EFAs to live – no such luck), or are lacking in one or the other (given "common" n-3’s like linolenic acid, your body can make other n-3’s from it, but it can’t make n-6’s from it). Your diet would have had to have been very extremely low-fat to be totally deficient in both types of EFA. – Dave W. http://members.aol.com/psorsite/
Response:
Graham said: >I think the current foot and mouth crisis here in the UK may help to cause >society to re-examine the entire meat question. I love red meat, but eat it >only >on rare ocassions. A few weeks
Yes, shades of the 20’s..and can ruminants eat food with ground up spinal material from other ruminants? I read a article in the local "Reader" newspaper on what they feed the local beef…that included all the spent vegtable oil from fast food french fryers…ex. french fried potatoes…(chips? for the uk-people) and all kinds of junk…like left over bread that was postdated at the local grocery stores..etc…all to get the beef to taste like what the consumer wanted…cripes.. Graham said: >A few weeks ago, my brother and I flew to New York just to >eat at Peter Lugers and Churasscuria Plataforma. Now tha
Are you sure? Eating meat only makes me want to eat more…..and more and more bringing out the carnivore in me… G said: >w that’s out of my system, I >probably won’t eat red meat for months.
You sound like a anaconda..or large snake…off to hibernate… G said:>he doctor you mention may well have hit the nail on the head, my diet must >have >been totally deficient in O3 and O6.
No to low fat…tsk tsk….you could get cancer without any fats…now that outa take your mind off.P at least for a few moments.. Graham first said: >I think the current foot and mouth crisis here in the UK may help to cause >society to re-examine the entire meat question.
As i may have mentioned earlier, in a post at least a week or two ago…The variable that most if not all of the CJD people was Tonsilitis as the focal point of entry.. as to foot and mouth…this is an old disease with no new ramifications beyond the spin that people give it… G said: >I love red meat, but eat it only >on rare ocassions. A few weeks
On most ocassions i eat it rare…heck give it to me tartar if cooking bends the proteins into prions….or some other such thing…just pile it up next to my sashimi..You do still eat that? Or maybe, if one goes on a no meat diet and then swills down the FSO (you said 3 tbl/a day ?) ..that somehow reprograms the metabolic pathway….you got me thinking Graham…Now how many of us will give up meat for awhile? I know that i do get some clearing…from what i believe is the increase of good intestinal flora when i decrease meat..or elimenate it…for awhile….but, i have gone on no meat for over a few months and still took my one table spoon of flax each morning…and did well….oh well, one more variable…to figure in….it does relate to a prior post today regarding ketogenic diets..and changed metabolic respones with epileptics’…maybe we have epileptic skin…after all…it does draw the same stares… Randall….
Response:
Dave, I think the current foot and mouth crisis here in the UK may help to cause society to re-examine the entire meat question. I love red meat, but eat it only on rare ocassions. A few weeks ago, my brother and I flew to New York just to eat at Peter Lugers and Churasscuria Plataforma. Now that’s out of my system, I probably won’t eat red meat for months. The doctor you mention may well have hit the nail on the head, my diet must have been totally deficient in O3 and O6. Graham
Response:
>I am happy to discuss the pro and cons of flax seed oil, >which was the point of my posting-…
Let’s see: Cons: 1) Not free. 2) I’ve heard it tastes ucky. 3) In large doses, may cause bleeding problems. 4) On average, probably "modest" results. Pros: 1) Fairly cheap. 2) Doesn’t taste as bad as borage oil, and no fishy burps, either. 3) Very safe in "normal" doses. 4) On average, probably "modest" results. Dang, the lists are the same, really. :) >…but you seem to be more intent on a semantical debate – >life is too short.
If you feel it’s a waste of your time, I’m surprised you even bothered to explain. Even more surprised now at your first FSO post, in which you wasted valuable time letting fly at Web sites devoted to Things That Don’t Work and any terminal cynics hiding around here. Little of that intro, nor of the intro for this thread, had much to do with the pros and cons of FSO. But still, you typed them. – Dave W. http://members.aol.com/psorsite/
Response:
Dave, <snip> This is becoming tiresome and you run the risk of boring me. Please go and do something else now. Graham
Response:
Hi Graham, Very happy to hear the Flax Seed Oil has worked for you. I have yet to try it, but now after reading your post, I think I will. I was wondering what exactly a Pyaderma was. I have Pyodermagangrenosum Open wound ulcers, and I was wondering if they are at all possibly the same thing? The words sound far too similar not to be linked somehow. The other similar traits that have me wondering, is location, as I only develop them on my lower trunk between knees and ankles. Also the healing time, mine usually take 2-3 years to heal. I ws also wondering what types of P you have. I have Pustular, plaque, and PA. If i am off base about your post I apologize for ranting, just trying to find anyone who also has these ulcers. Congrats on the FSO, I would love to know how much you take and for how long now. Thanks Lorraine
Response:
>This is becoming tiresome and you run the risk of boring me.
The idea that I’m posting to try to entertain you (or at least not bore you) is laughable. >Please go and do something else now.
So you *don’t* want to discuss the pros and cons of flax seed oil, after all? Hey, there’s this one doctor who claims that since we’ve been eating all this farm-raised meat, we’ve thrown our omega-3-to- omega-6 balance off-kilter, causing all sorts of nasty problems. Flax seed oil would help there, quite a bit, but I’m still leaning towards it’s antiinflammatory properties as the reason it works at all for psoriasis, since the good doctor is thinking of ancient times as if everyone world-wide all ate the same things. – Dave W. http://members.aol.com/psorsite/
Response:
Hi Lorraine, Yes it is Pyaderma Gangrenosum, I apologise for my appreviation, but the second word is sometimes difficult to contemplate, let alone to utter. I also have P and PA I have had the PG on the back of my calf since Novemeber 1999 and have run the gamut of convention drug and topical treatments, cyclosporin, dapsone et al. Then almost four weeks ago, I saw a snippet about FSO and my instincts told me to try it. I noticed an almost immediate dramatic improvement to my P. I am talking after 2 days. The backs of my fingers began to flatten. Similarly my arms, feet and legs – the extremities. They are now 90% clear. On the third week, I notice that the PG was starting to close up – too much of a coincidence. I have also reduced my NSAIDs by 50% – this A Very Good Thing. I urge you to try it. Like me you have absolutely nothing to lose. FSO is quite palatable. I take one tablespoon, twice per day, I am also consuming a lot of water (say 5 litres) Lorraine, I really hope that this helps you – PG is a most painful insult – especially when added to P and PA. Graham
Response:
Dave, I am happy to discuss the pro and cons of flax seed oil, which was the point of my posting- but you seem to be more intent on a semantical debate – life is too short. Graham
Response:
Dave, <snip> I have neither the time nor the inclination to indulge in a gain-saying competition with you, so if you don’t mind I am going to consign our brief parley to where it belongs. While I am here I would just like to tell you that there is a small celebration going on today at my house. A Pyaderma, that I have had on my calf since November 1999 and has resisted all forms of treatment, has closed up. Flax Seed Oil! Hallelujah! Thank the Lord for Flax Seed Oil! Whoooooooooooohooooooooo! Graham
Response:
>I have neither the time nor the inclination to indulge in a gain-saying >competition with you…
If that’s what you think I was interested in ("you’re wrong." "No, you’re wrong." "No…"), then you are mistaken. In fact, I think only one section of my reply could be considered "gainsaying," and that’d be the bit where I puzzled over what, exactly, you were using as an analogy. Well, this very paragraph is, indeed, gainsaying, because I’m challenging your implication that what I wanted to indulge in is any sort of gainsaying ‘competition’. >…so if you don’t mind I am going to consign our brief parley to >where it belongs.
I expected as much, unfortunately. Have you killfiled me yet? You don’t appear to have much inclination towards communicating – your "sharing" seems to go in only one direction – so I wouldn’t be surprised if you had, especially since it’s what you suggested I do. As I said, it’s really counter-productive, in the long run. The least you could have done is… Well, no, you’ve pretty much just done the least you could have done – the Usenet equivalent of "talk to the hand." Nevermind. The only thing that would have required less ‘work’ on your part would have been not replying at all. >While I am here I would just like to tell you that there is a small >celebration going on today at my house. A Pyaderma, that I have >had on my calf since November 1999 and has resisted all forms of >treatment, has closed up.
Excellent news! Bravo! – Dave W. http://members.aol.com/psorsite/
Response:
> You are foolish to assume that I implied that Flax Sees Oil *is* the > Philosophers Stone. > I merely used it as an analogy.
There was no assumption – I clearly *saw* an implication that flax seed oil is the Philosopher’s Stone. You titled the post with that name, and the only treatment you mentioned was FSO. Thus, the implication that FSO is the Philosopher’s Stone. On a re-read of your post, specifically looking for an analogy of some sort, all I can see is that your words about how we’re all on a quest for a harmless, effective treatment might make a decent comparison to the *search* for the Philosopher’s Stone of yore, but not to the Stone itself. Since you obviously didn’t intend the implication I read, I apologize. > Furthermore, if you feel that it wrong for me to share my delight at > having found something that helps me with other members of this NG…
I don’t believe it’s "wrong" of you to share your delight, in general. Please post about FSO (or anything else psoriatic) as you see fit. *But* — > …then by all means add me to your kill list or simply do not read my > postings.
— if I, or anyone else here, has objections, or a different viewpoint to share, should we still keep our big mouths shut? That’s what you appear to be asking me (and others) to do. As in: "I can post all I want, and if you don’t like it, then please killfile me instead of replying." This would be a pretty poor method of communicating, if it’s truly what you intended to say. > Whilst I respect your status in this newsgroup as the > Psoriatic Consumers Champion…
If that’s the only way you see what I attempt to do here, you can keep your ‘respect’. I have little desire to be seen solely as some sort of psoriatic Ralph Nader. I don’t know how many others here see me that way, and frankly, I don’t want to know. A title, such as you have just bestowed on me, would be nothing but a limitation, if I chose to even attempt to live up to it. > …I refuse to allow you to dissuade me from sharing what is for me > encouraging news.
Absolutely! Just as I refuse to keep my opinions to myself when I feel they can do this small segment of the public some good. – Dave W. http://members.aol.com/psorsite/
Response:
> Unfortunately, Graham’s also implied that flax seed oil *is* the Philosopher’s > Stone, which appears to be ludicrous, at best. >I find little reason to promote >flax seed oil as anything like an "optimal" treatment for psoriasis, which >Graham has strongly suggested, several times now.
Dave, You are foolish to assume that I implied that Flax Sees Oil *is* the Philosophers Stone. I merely used it as an analogy. Furthermore, if you feel that it wrong for me to share my delight at having found something that helps me with other members of this NG, then by all means add me to your kill list or simply do not read my postings. Whilst I respect your status in this newsgroup as the Psoriatic Consumers Champion, I refuse to allow you to dissuade me from sharing what is for me encouraging news. Graham
Response:
Dave said: > http://skepdic.com/philostone.html >Unfortunately, Graham’s also implied that flax seed oil *is* the >Philosopher’s >Stone, which appears to be ludicrous, at best. While there’s decent >evidence it can be an okay anti-inflammatory, which might help psoriasis, I >see nobody claiming it’ll grant immortality, or even cure the common cold, >both of which the true Philosopher’s Stone should do easily. >I, too, wish Graham continued success, but I find little reason to promote >flax seed oil as anything like an "optimal" treatment for psoriasis, which >Graham has strongly suggested, several times now. As I’ve said re …
Now….i did read the skep dick def. and defining things that are and were murky as to myths etc…is a tough call….if i believe that finding the p. stone or holy grail is finding yourself…hence immortality then….Graham is neither tilting at windmills, or saying its a physical cure..thru the palliative aura of flax he may have found inner "Graham"….yes the sweet elixir of Quixotic….inner musings that soothe the soul….romantically..aw crap….even i am having a hard time with this one…..explaining p on your penis…is looking like a more viable thread. so. one more try…. Someone said: >cently, >supplementing omega-3 oils has been shown to be of "modest" benefit >for most, and they’re unlikely to kill you (but let your doctor know you’re >taking them, since they thin the blood to some extent). >If a person’s uncomfortable (for whatever reason) in supplementing with flax >seed oil in particular, there are other sources for omega-3 fatty acids, such >as oily white fish, fish-oil capsules, or borage oil. Psoriatics should feel >free to experiment with these low-risk "alternatives" as they p
My answer to this ….is why is it working for Graham and not me……am i eating and Oxidizing my sugars to fast…?…why am i generating series two prostaglandins faster the Graham….? I want some more demographic info on Graham…length of P timeline…his previous and current dietary regime…get out the microscope…I want to turn over every germ on Graham….Why….if Graham truly has even an iota…(or more) of success with Flax…..am i only having a modest showing….? So: >low-risk "alternatives" as they please, as >long as they also understand that along with being low-risk, they may also >probably be, on average, low-return.
True….why can’t I get higher returns…will What? help and why?…as to flax…I have felt IMHO that balencing 3/6 omega fatty acids is very beneficial…as back in 1993-4 I had a sixty percent clearing in less then three months….then a plateau….and slow decline…. So, now with better demographic info….maybe one or two twists in that Protein structure or a flip flop in the handedness..(chirality) of the molecule and the jigsaw puzzle ….fits….or i will find nirvana and not give a crap….as growing older maybe offers enough wisdom to realize the grail and P stone (like it..?) are transient and fleeting….and will Magically Appear in Avalon….calling all P’s back to Camelot? Randall….sorry for the romance…its spring…here in sunny san diego…and the birds age chirpping all nite…
Response:
>"Philosophers Stone" No fair using a Van Morrison title track just to get >attention!
As Graham’s already written, the term was around long before the sixties: http://skepdic.com/philostone.html Unfortunately, Graham’s also implied that flax seed oil *is* the Philosopher’s Stone, which appears to be ludicrous, at best. While there’s decent evidence it can be an okay anti-inflammatory, which might help psoriasis, I see nobody claiming it’ll grant immortality, or even cure the common cold, both of which the true Philosopher’s Stone should do easily. I, too, wish Graham continued success, but I find little reason to promote flax seed oil as anything like an "optimal" treatment for psoriasis, which Graham has strongly suggested, several times now. As I’ve said recently, supplementing omega-3 oils has been shown to be of "modest" benefit for most, and they’re unlikely to kill you (but let your doctor know you’re taking them, since they thin the blood to some extent). If a person’s uncomfortable (for whatever reason) in supplementing with flax seed oil in particular, there are other sources for omega-3 fatty acids, such as oily white fish, fish-oil capsules, or borage oil. Psoriatics should feel free to experiment with these low-risk "alternatives" as they please, as long as they also understand that along with being low-risk, they may also probably be, on average, low-return. – Dave W. http://members.aol.com/psorsite/
Response:
The Philosophers Stone was a concept long before Van used it. I can have used Holy Grail – but wasn’t that Python. Graham
Response:
Graham said: >The Philosophers Stone was a concept long before Van used it. I can have used >Holy Grail – but wasn’t that Python.
Its quite possible that "you should have used Moulin Rouge" a simple can can would be saucy enough..without reverting to heresy… so…damm it man get a grip…. …still not getting my posts or the replys……did get a nice one today before rushing out the door deep sea fishing with my youngest son….only caught three fish..and he got 15….and lots of rays….sun….not uvb or bvd or xrays..or gamma…just plain sun…rays…ouch..got to much…oh the best part is I whore shorts….scaly me…and all…not just the fish…well….no ones gonna throw me back…i hope…lol Randall
Response:
"Philosophers Stone" No fair using a Van Morrison title track just to get attention! I am glad to hear that the flax seed oil is giving you some relief. It never did a thing for me 
Wishing you continued success, Cheers Tim http://hometown.aol.com/nesielheum/
Response:
You said: >Philosophers Stone" No fair using a Van Morrison title track just to get >attention! I am glad to hear that the flax seed oil is giving you some
Maybe it was a cheap trick for Van! As medieval alchemists were the forerunners to chemists….a science built upon logic and many years of hard work….I like Sir Issac Newton…one of the greatest minds the world has known…(Principa) and Voltaires little anecdote, heard from Newtons neice, regarding the apple…what most people don’t know (or care) is that Newton wrote extensively on alchemy..and may have nearly died from mercury or lead poisoning in his early 50’s….when he was going nuts….so…not only a great natural philosopher….he was at the dawn of scientific reasoning….he would be one to clone…..and in a letter to Robert Hooke Feb. 5th 1675/76 "If i have seen further ( then you and Descartes) it is by standing upon the shoulders of Giants" And then maybe we could get p answers a little quicker….though, the big bucks would sway him into other pursuits….and p would be meandering along like now…so we clone him and raise him in Plato’s cave….like the Kogi indians do, to make a shaman…er…mama….(their shaman.) and pool our money and resources…so is there a lock of hair, a tooth…or any stray Newton DNA lying around…and how long is this worth waiting for? Back to Flax….. You said: >I am glad to hear that the flax seed oil is giving you some >relief. It never did a thing for me
Well, it may not turn skin into gold…..or flakes into skin…at least we know that it doesn’t turn skin into flakes…..and that is a good thing…now for my morning tbl. spoon of flax….i just wish it worked 23% as well for me as Tim….Yet, i do feel that it helps, as to histamine relief and some clearing….if nothing else…and it is certainly better then the 7% solution….Now…Watson..get my hat….and gloves..the game is afoot… And the sun is back out….oh….the first alchemist no doubt were sun worshipers most likely….so think i’ll grab some aten rays….at least 20 minutes worth….i like rare…… Randall
Response:
As people with psoriasis, we spend years searching for effective treatments that will not, in the long term, cause irreparable damage to our vital organs. I know that it is a short time, but over the past 3 weeks I have seen a remarkable improvement to my extremely active and painful PA. The best improvement is in the extremities. My hands were covered in extremely raw, throbbing, active psoriasis. This has virtually disappeared. Also, joy of joys, I have been able to halve the dose of my NSAID’s. To me, this is wonderful news and an excellent excuse for being cheerful and optimistic. Flax seed oil. Graham